<p>Is there anyone on this board in the real world who can settle this dispute about a U of C diploma carrying the same respect as an Ivy one? I don't think all of us high school and college students can give an accurate depiction.</p>
<p>michaelburt,
I certainly can't settle the dispute, but I can provide my opinion. </p>
<p>The man in the street will have heard of Harvard and Yale - yet he may equate attendance at one of these institutions more with family wealth than brilliance. The reflected glory you would garner from your institution of higher learning would be greater if if you attended a football powerhouse.
Is your choice of a school going to be influenced by this type of person? </p>
<p>The respect of family and friends - depends on who they are. On average ... go with the football powerhouse. Chicago and the Ivies both lose. Much of my family is or has been involved in academics. Princeton, Chicago, Yale, Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, UCLA (to name a few) - these would all be accorded great honor - and among these people, ranking these schools would be a meaningless exercise. </p>
<p>The respect of an employer ... again, it depends. Ivies have more name recognition - but maybe the CEO from the state U with the football doesn't like ivies. Lets give the ivies an edge on this on. </p>
<p>The respect of a graduate or professional school - depends on the department, at least in part. A draw or close to it. Chicago or ivies win - football loses.</p>
<p>Academic and related awards - again, I would think, a draw. Chicago tends to win the Fullbright stakes, has lots of Nobels, regular Marshels, NSF's, Churchills, MacArthurs and so on. </p>
<p>Now look in the mirror. This is the person whose respect is, ultimately, most important to you. Whether you pick an Ivy or Chicago or a fine public institution - it should be based on what is important to you at the deepest level, not the opinion of the uninformed.</p>
<p>I think ohio_mom has hit the nail on the head. I would go one step further and say for most professions, where one goes to undergraduate school makes little difference. And further, at the graduate level, it depends on the specific program more than the name of the school, for example the nation's #1 neuroscience program is at the University of California at San Francisco. The nation's #1 medical school for primary care is the University of Washington. One would be better served attending these schools if one's interests lie in these areas than any of the Ivies or UChicago. A friend's daughter attended a third tier state undergrad program, yet was accepted into a top graduate (Ph.D.) program in her field (where many Ivy etc. applicants were rejected) and has found the offers plentiful. It was the quality of her work and her recommendations that got here in, not her school's reputation. A nephew who graduated from a top Ivy had a roommate from a state university while attending medical school. He said he never saw any advantage from his Ivy education at med school. In the last 25 years, no one has ever asked me where I went to undergrad school.</p>
<p>If business or the law is the aim, then, at the professional school level, Chicago or other top tier privates and a few state schools help a little in initial salary and jobs. As ohio_mom mentioned, however, in some areas of the country the local flagship state university will carry the most clout. What will ultimately make the difference, however, is how well one does on the job.</p>
<p>If getting a job is the only goal, then finding the school best for a particular career is probably the route one should take, for example engineering. On the other hand, if the thrill of discovery that comes with meeting academic challenges and being an educated person is the goal, then UChicago (and other fine schools) may be the best choice.</p>
<p>I'd back up the idea that your undergrad institution doesn't matter much if you have a "superior" professional or doctoral degree. (And this comment must be put into the context of how much the diploma itself -- as opposed to one's own skills and accomplishments -- may or may not matter in the real world.) Among the leading figures in my own field are folks who received their doctorates from "top 10" schools in the discipline (e.g., Harvard, Chicago, Wisconsin, Rochester, Stanford, Berkeley, UMich) but did their undergrad work at the likes of SUNY New Paltz and Cal State Northridge. Selection into doctoral programs is highly merit-based. After that, after you've earned the doctorate, you may get an initial boost in placement from where you earned your degree (and more particularly from who you worked with), but after a couple of years you are truly on your own to publish or perish.</p>
<p>Anyone have experience with Chicago fro graduate study. I have heard that they take the most students from their own college, but what are the acceptance rates for other schools? I am looking at William and Mary, which parallels Chicago in many aspects, and it is known for its rigorous cirriculum. Would it be better to go to UVa and get better grades or go to William and Mary, where my GPA would suffer a little more?</p>
<p>I'm going to be blunt: there is no evidence that attending a school with lower grade inflation hurts you in your applications to graduate or professional schools. You should choose an undergrad school that you like, that serves your interests on multiple dimensions (academic, social, location, cost, etc.), and take it from there.</p>
<p>michaelburt,
as you get older, life's constraints are going to tighten in. For the moment, however, you can surely pick the path you love the best - for all that you have mentioned are good. 'Striving for excellence' is a pretty hackneyed phrase at this point, but it seems to me that it is important for you. It takes a certain amount of courage to plunge into a rigorous academic program - but many things in life that are fine and good require courage.</p>
<p>In the past Chicago almost never took their own students. They, and many other schools, believed one should have a broader experience. (I know of students who decided not to attend Chicago undergrad because they thought it would give them a better chance at graduate school at Chicago.) This has changed in the past 20 to 30 years, but, I believe, most students in grad school still come from elsewhere. While I was a grad student there was only one student in our lab who had been a Chicago undergrad. In the program as a whole there were only a few. I know some recent grad students whose departments have former Chicago undergrads, but they too are largely made up of students from other schools. If one truly is outstanding and has impressed the faculty, it may now be an advantage to have attended as an undergrad (but that means many more winters in Chicago... [though if anything like my program, one seldom went outside enough to figure out what time a year it was, we didn't even have windows in our lab]).</p>
<p>As for grades, graduate schools tend to understand the grading policies of the various undergrad schools. Reed College, for example, places a huge percentage of their students in Ph.D. programs (many at Chicago) though their average GPA at graduation is 2.8. A 3.25 at Chicago will impress most grad schools, but letters of recommendation (and often phone calls) and other indicators such as undergrad research, etc. are often more important.</p>
<p>idad, </p>
<p>Taking a good percentage of one's own undergrads seems to be a universal phenomenon. It's happening more at ivies, Stanford as well as at Chicago. </p>
<p>And some, including U. Chi, have even developed tracks to encourage top students to do so. For instance, the GSB at U. Chi accepts a limited number of undergrads each year, and has specialized programs at the med school (Accelerated Medical Scholars) for example.</p>
<p>OM, liked your summary of who cares when. </p>
<p>To put it another way, the folks who care where you went don't know (much) and those that do know (much) don't care where you went. The latter group cares about the person, not the car decal.</p>
<p>newmassdad,</p>
<p>I assume that you are referring to the GSB Chicago Scholars program that allows fourth year Chicago Undergraduate students to apply to the GSB and defers the statrting date for two to three years while the student gets experience.</p>
<p>They also waive the application fee.</p>
<p>I believe that Chicago students may also apply to the medical school (very) early. My sources say that med school applications are even MORE fun than undergrad applications ... so that might be something to think about.</p>
<p>OM, they just changed the med school bit this year. Go to the UC website and search on Accelerated Medical Scholars.</p>
<p>Used to be an early app program begun soph year. Now it's start med school early senior year.</p>