<p>It seems strange. Almost every ivy league/elite university does QuestBridge: Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, Columbia, MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Uchicago, etc.....
but NOT Harvard? It definitely wants low income applicants, but it just refuses to participate in QuestBridge.
Why do you think that is?</p>
<p>I asked myself that too back in September… and thought maybe it didn’t want to send any early decisions? Which didn’t make sense because it already did LL… hummmm</p>
<p>[Overlooking</a> QuestBridge Applicants | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2008/10/15/overlooking-questbridge-applicants-merema-m-ahmed/]Overlooking”>Overlooking QuestBridge Applicants | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>
<p>huh, well I guess that explains it… it just seems a little silly for a college with a $27 billion endowment. Oh well</p>
<p>Harvard is in the middle of the pack among the schools you listed when it comes to recruiting Pell-grant eligible students (13% of the student body). MIT and Columbia lead with 15%. Yale and Princeton are at the bottom with 10%.</p>
<p>Harvard used to participate didn’t they?</p>
<p>I’ve wondered this for a long time. AFAIK, Harvard has never been a QB partner. Someone in the organization had said they were wary of taking Harvard on, for fear of causing an influx of applicants (notice that most of the partner colleges have been LACs). But Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and the others already make that a reality. Stanford enrolls anywhere from 100-120 low-income students who are Quest Scholars each year. That makes up nearly half of its Pell Grantees. I think Harvard’s missing out on a significant number of high-achieving, low-income students. For colleges, the benefit of QB is recruitment, and QB’s network is easily much better than Harvard’s, in terms of low-income student recruitment.</p>
<p>The other reasons that Fitzsimmons lists for not participating are BS.</p>
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<p>Because Harvard is just swimming in low-income students, right? Last I heard it was falling behind in the % Pell Grantees, relative to schools like Stanford, USC, and of course Berkeley and UCLA (everyone loses to them in % Pell Grantees).</p>
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<p>I can’t remember what the fee is per year, but I’m thinking something around $40,000. That’s the average financial aid package that Harvard gives to students. Not to mention Harvard already spends like $160million on financial aid each year, so the fee is really minimal in comparison. (Perhaps they’re afraid they’d have to increase the financial aid budget even more if they started enrolling more low-income students, via QB.) Harvard undergraduate admissions probably spends more than that fee just on staff luncheons, etc. each year.</p>
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<p>But Princeton participates and ended its early admission program too. Not to mention Harvard chose to end its EA program because it put low-income students at a disadvantage, so that cannot logically be the reason for not participating in QB.</p>
<p>Basically, Harvard doesn’t have a good reason for not participating.</p>
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<p>Apparently the Harvard admissions office thinks otherwise. Also, I’m questioning whether QB is indeed better at recruiting low income students. Its network isn’t very large, and the organization itself is not that well known. Just ask around and you can see how many high schoolers there are, not even saying low income students, who have actually heard about Questbridge. Like all opportunities out there, it’s more accessible and publicized to those who are better informed, while ironically, Harvard and all the top schools are rather trying to recruit those who lack access to this kind of information.</p>
<p>All in all, QB is a wonderful opportunity for those who were able to find out about this alternative method of applying to college that can help them better highlight the difficult circumstances of their lives, but the majority of high achieving low income students in this country are not privy to this information. </p>
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<p>But neither Berkeley or UCLA that have higher percentage of Pell grant recipients participates in Questbridge, while universities like Yale and Princeton are QB match schools but have lower % Pell Grantees. It’s much complicated than the simple QB=more low income students as you have suggested.</p>
<p>I guess my impression is that the Harvard admissions office is reluctant to pay to get Questbridge to do the selecting and recruiting socioeconomic diversity part for them when Harvard is doing a fairly good job attracting and admitting a diverse group of applicants on its own. </p>
<p>I’m not sure how familiar you are with QB, but in order to apply to a college through its program, you must first be evaluated and selected as a finalist by its admissions committee based on its standards, different, more arbitrary standards than those of conventional college admissions. There is only so many spots for low-income students in each freshman class. If all the top colleges were to rely on QB for their low income student recruitment, such that nearly half of the spots for socioeconomically diversity are QB finalists, it would make QB a very powerful gateway entry point to higher education for many students, almost like a second admissions committee.</p>
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<p>You lost me there. Questbridge has a very early admissions deadline, the end of September actually. It’s very difficult for someone who is not on top of the admissions process to be able to submit an application so early in their senior year. If early admission puts low income students at a disadvantage, QB certainly does to a much greater extent.</p>
<p>@xrCalico23 I agree with many of your points, but must say that though I had never heard about Questbridge, I was sent a couple pieces of mail and an e-mail or two by Questbridge, which helped me find out about it really easily. I also had a couple friends receive the same contact. (I suppose it could simply be my geographic area, but it seems unlikely…). As far as Questbridge power, even Yale (which, I think, matches the most students) only matches about 20 (of what… 2000 admitted students?). Plus, becoming a finalist is not too difficult - with about half of applicants becoming finalists - and Questbridge’s “admissions committee” ends there. Just my 2 cents :)</p>
<p>^And I don’t disagree with that at all. Just throwing some ideas out there as to why Harvard might have opted out of QB, in response to phantasmagoric stating that “Harvard doesn’t have a good reason for not participating” and that the “reasons that Fitzsimmons lists for not participating are BS”. </p>
<p>In fact, I think QB is a great program with a lot of potential, and I certainly don’t know as fact why Harvard isn’t a part of Questbridge match :)!</p>
<p>^Got it 
And you’ve probably come up with the best ideas (as to why Harvard doesn’t do QB) out of anyone I’ve talked to! Thanks for the insight!</p>
<p>My DD applied to QB; lots of time and effort, and did not get selected (or a chance at being matched). </p>
<p>I do not think that the QB “admissions committee” gets it right or better than do the Ivies (DD received a LL from Yale . . . accepted already by other great schools . . . and winner of MAJOR outside scholarships).</p>
<p>Here’s the thing: Why would the best schools in the country “outsource” their admissions practice, when the top schools are already need blind, and in some cases, offering a no-loan policy? I do think that the fees paid for the QB “service” is the reason why Harvard does not participate. For every 5 QBers that they would have taken anyway if applied directly, they could have admitted 6 qualified applicants. I think Harvard did the same math.</p>
<p>My 2.5 cents</p>
<p>It’s probably an income thing. The first screening is mostly for sifting out the EFC 0 kids, and the kids who don’t have the grades/scores to get matched etc.</p>
<p>I think that after you carefully examine this problem your investigation will turn inwards. You will find yourself thinking what have I done that has enabled Harvard to take advantage of me and not allow me to participate in such an enriching program as questbridge while also ascertaining my admisstion to such a prestigious school. Once you do some soul detective work I think you will find the answer, Harvard said if we use questbridge this kid captrick will attend our university and we don’t want that. So good job pal you ruined it for everybody.</p>
<p>@CoolRunning. Okay suer. But would Harvard mind giving low-income students an extra three essays and fourteen short responses to tell the committee about their unique life experiences? And are we talking about the same $27 billion endowment school? Sorry if that was overly sarcastic I just do think that Questbridge has the real value of letting the admissions committee have a better chance at getting to know the unique challenges faced by low-income students. </p>
<p>And, just throwing out ideas, maybe your daughter was extremely high-achieving, but didn’t really meet the low-income criteria as well as some of those that Questbridge is looking to? Just an idea, and congrats to you and her on her Yale LL!!</p>
<p>D’s friend was a Questbridge applicant who was accepted to Yale and then accepted to Harvard regular decision. My recollection is that it ended up not having to be a financial decision because of the similarity between the two. If Harvard is willing to do that, why would they bother to add paperwork to their admissions process by linking themselves to Questbridge.</p>
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QuestBridge targets their publicity at low-income students through mail and email, so most people would have not heard of it. I, for example, would have never applied QB if they hadn’t sent me a mail. While of course some high-achieving and low-income students who haven’t heard of it, I think that’s a minority.</p>
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QuestBridge doesn’t really act as a “second admission committee.” The finalist selection is not NEARLY as competition as the actual admission. It’s meant to weed out those who are CLEARLY unqualified and those who don’t actually have low-enough income. For 2009, about 43% of those who applied to QuestBridge were selected as finalists. (source:[2005-08</a> National College Match Program Results - Acceptance Rates](<a href=“http://www.questbridge.org/cmp/chances.html]2005-08”>http://www.questbridge.org/cmp/chances.html)). In fact, I wasn’t even excited when I learned my status as a finalist, since it’s pretty much a sure thing as long as you are financially qualified and have great academic records. This is to allow university admission offices to break its “need-blind” policy and let them know for sure you’re a low-income student.</p>
<p>I feel that reason Harvard is not participating is because many of the Matched students from QuestBridge end up applying to Harvard anyways. Yes, QB is binding, but Princeton, Yale, MIT, and Stanford are not binding, and you can imagine students who are Matched with these schools have almost perfect shot at Harvard. After all, not many people want to choose somewhere other than Harvard.</p>
<p>I’d advocate not to do QB. I don’t see why we should apply to this program because the selection process to be matched is highly competitive. Applicants can apply straight to Harvard SCEA and have a 18% admittance rate (like this year) or 1% being matched with Questbridge. I’d choose the former.</p>
<p>What’s your source on it being 1%?</p>
<p>There are many benefits to QuestBridge. The application is long and gives you plenty of space to fully flesh out your background. The application is harder than most other applications that a student will do, so it helps prepare students and get an application done early in the admissions season (late September). You get automatic fee waivers to the schools you choose to rank. You can ask QuestBridge to forward your application to a number of schools in the RD round. Most of all, it automatically flags you as a high-achieving, low-income student, in a pool of similar students; putting them in with the rest of the applications might make for stiffer competition. Admissions officers are willing to be lenient with some shortcomings (say, only a 3.7 GPA in honors/AP classes, or a 2050 on the SAT) if they know about your background - say, you work 30 hours a week to support your family. That makes your accomplishments seem all the more impressive - they give context. For some of the partner colleges, the financial aid is better if you get in through the match, e.g. no loans. Most students also get in RD; the overall acceptance rate for match finalists was 56% in 2010. Finally, QB has a great network that has a lot to offer, from internships to mentors. </p>
<p>Remember that the majority of students are matched to liberal arts colleges. For students who, in many cases, hadn’t thought they could go to college, being able to apply ED to 8 great schools with a guarantee of a full, four-year scholarship with no loans (if they’re accepted) is a pretty awesome deal. </p>
<p>This is a late reply to xrCalico23:</p>
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<p>That’s not true - it has a pretty impressive network of counselors and teachers who wrote recommendations, as well as matched students, match finalists, College Prep Scholarship recipients, and alumni. It’s grown fast over the years.</p>
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<p>Yale and Princeton would have an even lower % of Pell Grant recipients if they weren’t participating in QB. The fact that Berkeley and UCLA have much higher % of Pell Grant recipients without participating in QB is irrelevant.</p>
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<p>The “admissions team” at QB is pretty easy on applicants. If you meet the income restrictions and you’re at least a “decent” student, you become a finalist. These were the stats for finalists:</p>
<pre><code>* 7% scored above 1500.
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26% scored above 1400.
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53% scored above 1300.
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80% scored above 1200.
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71% were among the first generation in their family to graduate from a four-year college in the United States.
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20% were 1st in their class.
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73% were in the top 5% of their class.
</code></pre>
<p>First, I should have been clearer. 1% of those who apply to a certain college via QB match will be accepted (sometimes fewer). Dartmouth, for example, this year only took 0.5% of those who ranked it. There’s no source directly from QB that says this, which baits a lot of students into applying during the match round. The figures are sent via email from individual QB partners.
1% to 8 colleges vs 18% to your top choice? You do the math and decide for yourself. Btw 18% is only a figure for Harvard. If you look beyond, ED-ing to your top choice can be more than 30% acceptance rate!</p>
<p>Second, I should have been clearer, again. Students should do QB, yes. But don’t do the match program. Do the app, get the fee waiver, and opportunities that come with it even after the match round. </p>
<p>Third, yes. It’ll flag you as a low income student who’s overcome obstacle. But even if you don’t do Questbridge, those should be the obvious thing the readers’d see in your app. A friend of mine this year was rejected by QB, but accepted to Stanford.</p>
<p>Fourth, I personally felt the prompts were really stiff, except for the biography one. QB apps can be used for practice purpose, however, and to obtain the status of QB finalist, which in itself does not mean much. What matters is what benefits come with it after the match round.</p>
<p>5th, the overall acceptance rate is 56%. True. But this is to ALL Questbridge partners, and not to a single, specific one school. Actually, for Yale, if I remember correctly, they mention taking about 50-75% students from QB to Yale RD, plus about 20 others from the match round. Do the math. 100 students/ 3500 finalist is 2.86%. The acceptance for Yale overall hovers around 7-8%.</p>