Any thoughts on the undergraduate business programs at Syracuse, Miami University (Ohio) and the University of Miami?
Miami OH over the other two. But not by too much
^^depends more on where you want to work.
'Cause likely has a much bigger alum network in NYC, for example.
Miami would be strong in the Fla.
Cause they used to be considered about as prestigious as secretarial schools.
Glad you like it. I am still trying to come up with a good explanation for the differences. The most likely scenario is that there is more than one cause.
Going forward, what I think we need is individualized outcome assessments. Done by a trusted third party is the way to go. Students need not concern so much about what their majors are and what school they attended, rather, just show the post-degree outcome of higher-order thinking skills (such as CLA+) with a college transcript to the employer and you are all set. Assuming of course, employers will start asking for it from applicants.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/02/new-assessments-testing-firms-have-job-market-potential
What a great idea.
darn spell check. I meant to write “'Cuse”. 
Of course, if a CLA-type test becomes important, there may well be some influence on departments changing courses and curricula to “teach to the test” or try to “game” the test with respect to their student outcomes, in order to make themselves look better.
It may also be difficult to come up with a CLA-type test intended to compare students across majors that is truly major-neutral, since different majors tend to give students practice in different kinds of thinking.
And different jobs require different kinds of thinking. It’s silly to pretend that one test can tell a company that someone is suitable for an entry level job in risk management vs. an entry level job in investor relations vs. an entry level job in strategic planning vs. an entry level job in market research , even though all of these jobs require some core math and analytical skills.
“Cause they used to be considered about as prestigious as secretarial schools.”
When was that? Pre 1930 maybe? Most are now dead.
If you want to contribute aspects of the discussion to this one here… some points would certainly be applicable.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1741983-can-you-get-a-good-job-with-a-business-degree-if-you-are-not-an-accountant-or-investment-banker.html
@ucbalumnus I would expect such a test to have a section similar to the SAT, where research has consistently shown to be resistant to “prep”. As far as major goes, I really don’t see the problem at all. An applicant’s skill set and personality, however those are acquired, should be much more important to an employer.
@blossom If we are only looking for core math and analytical skills, we can just go with the GRE and be done with it. I think they are interested in much more. ACT’s WorkKeys has a suite of 11 assessments to help employers select, hire, train and retain. India’s AMCAT assesses not only aptitude in English, quantitative ability and logic but also a variety of “situational and judgment tests, which scrutinize personality types and soft skills to see how they might apply in specific fields”.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/11/14/indian-companys-skills-test-college-graduates
I have said many times that the hiring system used by Bain and BCG (the Munzi article ) is the best I have ever seen. Screening by a combination of SAT, GPA, demanding quantitative courses and interview will most certainly separate the truly able from the pretenders. The problem is that it is time-consuming and expensive. Perhaps a standardized exit exam with most or all of the attributes employers are looking for would help to delineate the process, making it cheaper and easier for employers and the ideal candidates to find each other. This should drastically cut down the mis-match ucbalumnus was talking about. I would, of course, never suggest using it as the only criterion by any means.
The GRE is not hard enough to assess for quant skills for roles that require real math. It’s fine for determining who can read a bar chart, interpret a table of data, etc. for a “not so quant” business job, but really isn’t designed for measuring past that. My own company uses its own analytical test for some roles (not all) in addition to SAT’s, GPA, etc. and although the system isn’t perfect, it allows us to figure out who is “mathy” enough for the roles requiring that.
You may ask why don’t we just hire engineers or physics majors and be done with it. And we do hire those. But adding a history major with strong quantitative skills to the group is very powerful. Although many on CC believe that humanities majors end up wearing aprons and serving lattes, they perform very well (when we screen and hire appropriately).
A psych major with courses in statistical analysis who understands data collection and interpretation is a versatile animal. A poli sci major who took a rigorous econ sequence is very high potential in some roles. Area studies- Latin America, Southeast Asia- which also have some coursework in something quant is a terrific combination. I’ve worked for CEO’s who love history majors of all stripes- they can see the big picture, a skill often in short supply in many business functions. And they generally write well.
^^That is an excellent post. I love students that can combine two disparate areas of study into their degree program. English major with a math minor, physics major with a history minor etc. are pure dynamite. They must make a strong impression on recruiters as they do on me. I want to see a lot more of them.
Some of your examples put a smile to my face. In my family, there is a psychology major exactly as you described, and has a physics minor to boot. Another one has an elite Canadian business degree, majoring in finance, with an area studies minor. As you can probably guess, they are doing very well or have done very well for themselves.
I am surprised to learn that the GRE has easy math…easier than the SAT?
It so happened that a sibling, with degrees from Rotman and Schulich, was staying at my house for the weekend. I told her about the CLA results and asked her what could possibly be the reason business majors do so well on them. Her response was “case studies”. They apparently had half their courses in lectures and half in “case studies”. Now if I can only figure out why phy ed also do well, the riddle will be solved.
Here are sample questions for the GRE math section:
https://www.ets.org/gre/institutions/about/general/quantitative_reasoning_sample_questions/
Essentially the same, or at least the math-level academic background required for the GRE is no more than that of the SAT (~Alg II). In other words, no college math required. And let’s not even think about Calculus for a so-called Graduate level exam.
From the GRE website:
Brown Prime doesn’t technically offer a MBA by itself; however, its specialized MSc degree occupies a rather specific niche in the business education market (technology entrepreneurship), hence its minimalist class size (20-25).
Does anybody know how good of a reputation USC’s Marshall School of Business has within and outside of L.A.? I know it’s been pretty highly ranked the last few years but historically hasn’t been great (it’s been on an upward trend). Any thoughts?
I am currently a member of business society, and only wanted to mention that 4 years of college can be spent in a more valuable way. Tell me if there is not a better way to spend 4 years than business. For MBA, it is great. Maybe you can try management sciences or economy which will trigger a great career in business. Please respect to other people’s thoughts instead of attacking: Truths are truths. @daddio3
@tryingforyale only a “truth” for you and people who share your opinion.
For people looking for a strict, pre-professional program into business, a 4-year curriculum would be great for them IMO.
But one can argue the same with specialized schools (like Harvey Mudd, which focuses specifically on engineering)