<p>Post question speaks for itself. I mean I have a fairly good idea but in the UK, Oxbridge has got a very large no of international students(although that causes controversy in the country-but this is because the government cannot afford to fund them-because they fund so bloody wars instead and raise tuition fees- so they have rely on the interns fees) But how come america is ONLY so strict on Medics?</p>
<p>In general, US medical schools have an obligation to train the next generation of doctors to provide medical care in the US. Admitting large numbers of foreign students, who often will return to their home countries to practice medicine, is contrary to meeting that obligation.</p>
<p>^^ exactly what I was going to say. These American universities are here primarily to serve America, although they have an international impact. Training foreign students, only to lose them to other countries, would be counterintuitive. Selfish? Perhaps.</p>
<p>In addition, it's not just medicine. It's generally very difficult to get into American schools if you're an international. But medicine is especially difficult, since many countries (especially Asian ones) bombard the US with med applicants.</p>
<p>In the scheme of things, most American universities are selective with internationals anyways. Med school is cutthroat in America, but when you add in the fact that you're an international, it gets bloody.</p>
<p>And I agree with above, these are American schools, primarily for Americans.</p>
<p>You guys are really intense on the AMERICA part.</p>
<p>There are certainly two ways to look at this question - international students trying to get into US medical students and International Medical Grads trying to garner residency positions in the US.</p>
<p>The medical school issue is in part what has been mentioned, but I think is probably more likely due to the cutthroat nature of medical school admissions in general. Most schools are admitting less than 10% of their total applicant pool. Last year only 45% of applicants nationwide matriculated, a number that is going to go down even further this year as applications shot up. One of the biggest advantages in med school admissions is being an in-state resident applying to a state public school. That may increase your "odds" from 10% to 25% which is big. However, as an International - you don't get that benefit anywhere. Throw in unfamiliarity with the rigor of universities abroad and it's hard for medical schools to know what they are getting in a student.</p>
<p>When it comes to the IMG issue for residency positions, it again comes down to a quality issue. IMG's are far less successful on USMLE Step 1 (93% of US M2's pass on first try, only 63% of IMG's pass on first try), and that is a key component of how residency programs judge applicants. </p>
<p>You also run into the problem of the quality of international medical schools being way, way, way different from top to bottom. Some residency programs just refuse to accept any IMG's rather than spend the time to figure out which are the good ones and which aren't. Whereas, the 125 US medical schools are all really, really, really comparable in quality (despite what people on this site initially think) from top to bottom. A US M4 with a passing Step 1 score is a pretty known entity for residency programs, one with little risk. Considering most University Hospitals couldn't function without the cheap labor provided by house officers, having a new resident flake out only makes it harder on everyone else. With the new 80 hour work week limits in place, that further increases the need for residency programs to make sure everyone sticks and will be there to fill the schedule and adequately staff the department.</p>
<p>Much of the medical school funding comes from the state or federal governments. They have no obligation to fund medicsal education for the world given that in 10 years there will be a doctor shortage in this country.</p>
<p>Maybe, but if there is going to be a doctor shortage in this country, then shouldn't the government employ more people even from out of the country, before there is a definite need to do so?</p>
<p>Government funds are meant to be used on American students. That's why schools can't be need blind for international students applying.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Maybe, but if there is going to be a doctor shortage in this country, then shouldn't the government employ more people even from out of the country, before there is a definite need to do so?<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>If they were educated abroad then maybe the answer is yes. But giving a spot in a US medical school to an international student instead of a US citizen will do nothing to help with any doctor shortages in the US. At best it's a wash and may in fact hurt if the foreign student decides to return home.</p>
<p>To the OP, 'America' is a continent. I think you're referring to the U.S.</p>
<p>I don't mean to be anal, but there are many other countries in America, and some people take offense when they are not considered a part of their own continent. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think it's perfectly all right to call a person from the U.S. an 'American.' This has come to be an accepted usage of the term.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is because US Medical schools, whether state or private, are funded in one way or another by US taxpayers.</p>
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Perhaps it is because US Medical schools, whether state or private, are funded in one way or another by US taxpayers.
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<p>Yet it's interesting that that doesn't seem to stop other graduate programs from admitting plenty of foreigners. For example, many of the top US science, math, and engineering PhD programs consist of majority foreigners. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The medical school issue is in part what has been mentioned, but I think is probably more likely due to the cutthroat nature of medical school admissions in general. Most schools are admitting less than 10% of their total applicant pool. Last year only 45% of applicants nationwide matriculated, a number that is going to go down even further this year as applications shot up. One of the biggest advantages in med school admissions is being an in-state resident applying to a state public school. That may increase your "odds" from 10% to 25% which is big. However, as an International - you don't get that benefit anywhere. Throw in unfamiliarity with the rigor of universities abroad and it's hard for medical schools to know what they are getting in a student.
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</p>
<p>While I don't know the data, I think it would be an interesting exercise to look at those international students who attended US undergraduate programs and may have established state residency through a visa or green card or other such means, but are still not US citizens. Would they still have to survive tougher admissions because they are still technically 'foreigners', even though they have the same undergraduate education and the same state residency perks as other applicants do? After all, this student is still highly likely to finish med school/residency, and then return to his home country. </p>
<p>
[quote]
In general, US medical schools have an obligation to train the next generation of doctors to provide medical care in the US. Admitting large numbers of foreign students, who often will return to their home countries to practice medicine, is contrary to meeting that obligation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
In the scheme of things, most American universities are selective with internationals anyways. Med school is cutthroat in America, but when you add in the fact that you're an international, it gets bloody.</p>
<p>And I agree with above, these are American schools, primarily for Americans.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>See above. Again, I ask, what about those "landed" immigrants who come for a period of time before going home? I know a number of Asian families who immigrated here a while ago, but are now all planning to go back to take advantage of economic opportunities back home. Their children went to US colleges. Some of them even went to US high schools. But they're still not US citizens. Some of them don't WANT to become US citizens because they don't want to give up home country citizenship, as some countries (notably China and Japan) do not recognize dual citizenship. </p>
<p>Heck, even US citizenship does not bar people from leaving to return to their country of ethnicity. Specifically regarding this thread, I know some Asian-American doctors who have moved back to Asia to work. For example, the growing trend of medical outsourcing is being led by Indian-American doctors who have moved back to India to start outsourcing businesses (i.e. outsourced Xray analysis), but still retain their US medical licenses. </p>
<p>Hence, med-schools might argue that they should admit fewer Asian-Americans simply because they are likely to take their medical training back to Asia with them, despite the fact that these Asian-Americans are fully-fledged US citizens. It would be a racist thing to do, but it would also be logical. After all, nothing stops any US citizen from becoming trained as a doctor and then immediately moving to another country. And of course the ones who are most likely to do that are those citizens who are recent immigrants (i.e. in the first or second generation), and especially the ones who come from burgeoning economies (i.e. Asia). Think of it this way. What's the difference between a US med school admitting a guy straight out of a college in India (let's say IIT) who then goes back to India, and admitting an Indian-American (who holds US citizenship), and who ALSO ends up going back to India? Either way, the guy ends up not providing care to Americans. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that I know the answer to this. I am just positing this as an interesting question.</p>
<p>Luckily, such data does exist...</p>
<p>297 Non US matriculants, of which 181 had no US state of legal residence, leaving 116 foreign born students with US Residency matriculated.</p>
<p>1527 Non US applicants, of which 1074 had no US State of legal residence; leaves 453 foreign born students US residency...</p>
<p>116/453 = 25.6%
181/1074 = 16.9%</p>
<p>Meanwhile, state by state acceptance rates ranged from West Virginia at 58.5% to Alaska at 34.1, 36.8 for students from DC and 38.9% for Arizona.</p>
<p>So it looks like that even with US residency, it's still a strike against.</p>