<p>
[quote]
LAX, I do agree that there should be more URMs at Berkeley, but it's wrong to set certain quotas just to promote " diversity".
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</p>
<p>Do you think there should be more at Harvard, which has the same % URMs as Berkeley?</p>
<p>Ok fine, even if hes not racist, hes ignorant</p>
<p>how is it kind of odd?</p>
<p>this is california, you live in georgia, so quiet down</p>
<p>I kind of get what he might be saying. It is more of a shock to see so many asians as 1) He lives in Georgia and not Cali, and 2) Only about 5% of the population is Asian and Berkeley is about 45% asian.</p>
<p>The extreme cliquiness of asians also contributes to the shock, and the lack of URM's. While other schools may be less "diverse" because they are 75% or above white, white people are ALOT more open to having friends of different backgrounds and cultures. While it also always depends on where you live, this seems to hold true.</p>
<p>For example at my school it is about 75% white. While that may be true you still see white people interacting with everyone, except the asians. The funny thing is, that in less than a day you saw large asian cliques that didn't have any other races in them. At the same time you would see large white cliques with usually at least one person of another race at least talking to them. While there are large cliques with only white people in them, the school is VERY white so that makes sense.</p>
<p>At Berkeley though it is less than 50% asian so why aren't they making close friends with the other 50%. I've heard from many people that go there that the segregation is ridiculous. Even while people may interact, i've heard that if your not their race your chances of becoming close to them are slim to none. That is what might contribute to the idea that there is a lack of diversity.</p>
<p>What is it about college that makes segregation so rampant(some colleges are obviously worse than others)?</p>
<p>For example a close friend of mine is asian. When she was at home she hanged out with everyone no matter what race they were. Black, White, Hispanic, it really didn't matter. She went to college though, and every single last one of her friends is asian. EVERY ONE! How did this happen, its your guess as well as mine. She can't even explain it. She even seemed to get annoyed with me when I asked her how come she couldn't make any friends of another race.</p>
<p>It seems many people in college(asians especially), look for race or cultural background first rather than similar interests as a requirement for a friend. It seems she made her friends based on what race they were, rather than if they were compatible. While it may of taken me longer to find my friends than she did, i can say with certainty that were all on the same ground. My friends encompass all races, because I looked at personality. While her group of friends is already having problems with one of the girls. If she would of made friends based on personality compatibility, rather than race, after one conversation they would of seen that the girl was a *****, and kicked her to the curb. Now she is part of the clique, and there goes a year of drama.....</p>
<p>
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The extreme cliquiness of asians also contributes to the shock, and the lack of URM's.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How many times must it be said before people get it? 1) Cliques will form everywhere. 2) Asians are no more cliquey than whites; there is quite a bit of mixing. 3) There is no "lack of URMs." Berkeley is ~17% URM. This is very high, and about the same for top privates such as Harvard, Stanford, etc.</p>
<p>
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white people are ALOT more open to having friends of different backgrounds and cultures.
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<p>I think that's a really nonsensical sweeping claim that has absolutely no foundation. How do you know that whites are more open to friends of other cultures and backgrounds? How do you know that Asians are less so? (I think we can all agree that Americans are generally culturally ignorant. And yes, this is coming from a culturally aware American.)</p>
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While that may be true you still see white people interacting with everyone, except the asians.
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<p>Why is it the Asians' fault that they aren't mixing? From what you say, it seems as though the whites aren't mixing with the Asians.</p>
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At Berkeley though it is less than 50% asian so why aren't they making close friends with the other 50%.
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<p>Who in the hell said they weren't (with reason, that is)?</p>
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I've heard from many people that go there that the segregation is ridiculous.
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<p>Hear-say proves nothing.</p>
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Even while people may interact, i've heard that if your not their race your chances of becoming close to them are slim to none.
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<p>And I've heard the opposite. So we can agree to disagree, no?</p>
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That is what might contribute to the idea that there is a lack of diversity.
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<p>You haven't endowed us with any information not previously presented. What would make your case stronger, though, would be to present hard evidence -- a survey, for example. I don't think there are any, so I'm not expecting much.</p>
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She went to college though, and every single last one of her friends is asian.
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<p>There are myriad possible reasons. The college could have a higher % Asians; she could have been put in a dorm where there were a disproportionately high number of Asians; her classes tended to have Asians in them; she tended to be at places where Asians were; Asians were especially friendly and so made friends with her more often; and so on.</p>
<p>
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It seems many people in college(asians especially), look for race or cultural background first rather than similar interests as a requirement for a friend.
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</p>
<p>Where's your proof for this? I don't see any logic behind that, nor do I see any statistical evidence.</p>
<p>Really, this topic has been exhausted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How many times must it be said before people get it? 1) Cliques will form everywhere. 2) Asians are no more cliquey than whites; there is quite a bit of mixing. 3) There is no "lack of URMs." Berkeley is ~17% URM. This is very high, and about the same for top privates such as Harvard, Stanford, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While you may be right, why do people think that there is a lack of URM's. I even read an article on a black female at Berkeley talking about how disheartening it was to go into a class and be the only black person in it. While that was the only article I've ever read about someone complaining about that, I don't think that it was just mere coincidence that the girl went to Berkeley.</p>
<p>And Asians are ALOT more cliquey than any other race. Of course I don't have any data on it, except from my own observations in high school and college, and I know other people agree with me on this. Hell, just look at an asians facebook friends at any college, whether there is a 2% or 45% asian population at their school it is 90% likely that about 75% of her top friends will be asian, usually more. While a white person or even black person at the same school will have about a 60%.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that's a really nonsensical sweeping claim that has absolutely no foundation. How do you know that whites are more open to friends of other cultures and backgrounds? How do you know that Asians are less so? (I think we can all agree that Americans are generally culturally ignorant. And yes, this is coming from a culturally aware American.)
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</p>
<p>Are you serious? It is very obvious that it is easier to break into a white clique than an asian one. While language may play a huge role in it (if you go sit down with a group of koreans, and everyones speakin korean, and you don't know it, no matter how friendly you are you're gonna be left out a little, even if they do revert back to English for your sake), Asians are in general harder to become close friends with if you're not asian. Just look at the hordes of only asian cliques. You can't tell me that its just coincidence, that you only see asian people in 99% of them, while in the white cliques many of them have at least one regular member of a different race. But like I said before it also depends on where you go.</p>
<p>
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Why is it the Asians' fault that they aren't mixing? From what you say, it seems as though the whites aren't mixing with the Asians.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What? The Asians are the ones obviously the most resistant to mixing. What I was saying is that in a lot of colleges you will see a black girl being close friends with a white girl, a black guy being close friends with a hispanic guy, a white guy being close friends with an black guy, and an asian guy/girl being close friends with a....asian guy/girl. While they are likely to be close friends with white people, that is still unlikely, and it is extremely rare for an asian person to be close or best friends with a black or hispanic person.</p>
<p>
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There are myriad possible reasons. The college could have a higher % Asians
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<p>No! Our town had many more asians (around our age) than were shes at now and she didn't self segregate at all. So why in college?</p>
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her classes tended to have Asians in them
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<p>Hasn't started classes yet.</p>
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she tended to be at places where Asians were
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<p>I don't understand this? Shes at college, there are different types of people everywhere.</p>
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Asians were especially friendly and so made friends with her more often
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<p>Why would Asians be more friendly towards her than anyone else? Just because shes asian? If thats the reason that would prove my previous point of making friends based on race rather than personality first.</p>
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Where's your proof for this? I don't see any logic behind that, nor do I see any statistical evidence.
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<p>There is no statistical evidence, just my own personal observations. I see it like this. If she was making friends based on similar personalities, interests, etc. there is no way her friends would be all asian, and from the same country. I searched for friends based on personal interest and all of my friends didn't turn out black, only some are. How come? How come asian people tend to be only close friends with other asian people. Thats like saying that a black person that has a passion for basketball in college is only going to be close friends with other black people despite other races obviously sharing the same passion for basketball. That makes no sense. It would obviously make sense that if that black person was searching for friends with similar interests he would become close friends with white people also. This wouldn't happen only if he was "searching" or "ignoring" people that weren't his race, when he was looking for friends.</p>
<p>I'm too tired to really go into this, and to clean up my argument, but I hope someone gets the gist of what I'm saying, and explains it better.</p>
<p>
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why do people think that there is a lack of URM's.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Because they're unobservant half-wits? Look, I'll even back up my claims:
[quote]
* <1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
* 46% Asian/Pacific Islander
* 4% Black/Non-Hispanic
* 12% Hispanic
* 29% White/Non-Hispanic
* 2% Non-Resident Alien
* 7% Race/ethnicity unreported
[/quote]
<p>See, hard evidence. Now it's your turn.</p>
<p>
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I even read an article on a black female at Berkeley talking about how disheartening it was to go into a class and be the only black person in it.
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</p>
<p>Why don't you point me to that article, and I'll decide its legitimacy? And even then, I really doubt it's as bad as she may have presented it.</p>
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And Asians are ALOT more cliquey than any other race.
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<p>I really disagree. We're all human; we're all prone to be cliquey.</p>
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except from my own observations in high school and college, and I know other people agree with me on this.
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<p>Ad populum arguments don't support your case.</p>
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Hell, just look at an asians facebook friends at any college
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<p>I'm sorry you find Facebook to be a valid measure in this case.</p>
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The Asians are the ones obviously the most resistant to mixing.
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</p>
<p>I disagree. And it doesn't appear that you can support your assertions.</p>
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[quote]
it is extremely rare for an asian person to be close or best friends with a black or hispanic person.
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</p>
<p>Again, you're making these sweeping generalizations that have no valid evidence to support them. Face it: your claims are unfounded.</p>
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Why would Asians be more friendly towards her than anyone else? Just because shes asian? If thats the reason that would prove my previous point of making friends based on race rather than personality first.
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</p>
<p>Come on, you're not really trying to argue your case on this, are you? It's anecdotal evidence -- it will prove nothing in the end.</p>
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but I hope someone gets the gist of what I'm saying, and explains it better.
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</p>
<p>I hope so too -- so that I can refute his or her claims, too.</p>
<p>I'm commenting on my own observations and there is data to back it up. I'll try to search the internet to find the articles and the data to back up my claims if I end up caring enough about the topic to go that far, but anecdotal evidence also has its benefits. In fact I read the story about the black female along time ago here on CC, it was linked by someone.</p>
<p>But all I'm saying is a walk through Berkeley speaks worlds more than any statistical evidence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But all I'm saying is a walk through Berkeley speaks worlds more than any statistical evidence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it doesn't. One visit is not going to be sufficient. For example, when I visited Stanford, almost every student that I encountered was rude, preppy, and asinine. Would I make a generalization on the entire student body? No, I wouldn't. Same in this case: you can't make a generalization that Asians will be more cliquey than whites, that they're unwilling to mix, that whites are more open to mixing, etc. just based on one walk through Berkeley. It's simply nonsensical.</p>
<p>And funnily enough, there are plenty of people who could spout as much anecdotal evidence as you, if not more, and those experiences would differ from yours. Some will find that Berkeley is lacking in diversity; others will find that it isn't. As you can tell, I fall into the latter group, you the former. We can agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Excuse me, Kenshinsan, but you have no right to blame anyone race for the "segregation" Berkeley. If racial cliques are a problem at colleges, then people like you who sterotype other races are at the the root of the problem. Dude, it takes two to make a friend, so dont lay the fault on just one person ( the Asian). And repeating a second-hand and apparently biased account about the Asian cliques at Berkeley doesn't prove anything. If you are not a Berkeley student, then dont talk about something that you obviously dont know about.</p>
<p>Kyledavid 80: Yes, I do think the percentage of URMS should increase at all colleges, but I think that especially public schools have a social responsibility should take measures to an effort to include more URMs. ( I do not mean setting racial quotas or AA)</p>
<p>Oh by the way, Kenshinsan, I'm Asian and my two closest friends in high school were black and white, so take that into account since I know you appreciate anecdotal evidence.</p>
<p>Ok, just stepping away from the "Asians are more cliquish" thing for a moment, has anyone considered that maybe Cal and UCLA have a higher percentage of Asians because that's where they feel comfortable? For example, if I were an Asian admitted to both Dartmouth and UCLA, I'd probably pick UCLA, because I wouldn't stand out as much as I would at Dartmouth. Also, many of the Asian students were born in, or have immigrated directly from, Asia. On that continent, Berkeley and UCLA have a much bigger prestige factor than, say, Columbia.
On top of that, more Asians get admitted because in many cases they are better qualified. I think someone with a 2300 SAT who is also a nationally recognized violinist should get in over someone with a 1750 who is good at throwing the football, for example. Race should have nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, I do think the percentage of URMS should increase at all colleges, but I think that especially public schools have a social responsibility should take measures to an effort to include more URMs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why public schools especially? Why not all schools? And these schools are trying their hardest to recruit URMs, e.g. by having free multicultural visitation programs, etc. The only solution, as it stands, is to practice AA more.</p>
<p>I stated that ALL schools should, but especially public schools because schools sponsored by the governement should set the example for private schools. Private schools should do the same this, but since they are privately owned the governement does not and should not have the power to impose this on them. AA is a great idea, but I don't support it because it's abused much too often.</p>
<p>I merely want to point out to those who refute any racial mixing to take a look at the couples walking around Berkeley... most commonly Asian girls with white guys. <em>chuckle</em></p>
<p>Other than that joke/jab that contains a rather large grain of truth, realize that blacks, South Asians, Hispanics, and yes, whites, ALL make cliques at Berkeley.</p>
<p>As for your comments, I suggest that you also look at the black students at Berkeley. If there is any impenetrable clique, it is those of the black students at Berkeley. But this phenomenon is inevitable at any school.</p>
<p>Just a thought to those who believe in merit based admissions and don't care about the fact that Berkeley's 23000 undergrad population is half asian: college is not just about admitting the smartest people who can come and get good grades and study a textbook; it's about talking with your peers and professors about their life back home, staying up late to talk about the presidential elections with a doormate, it's about expanding your horizons.</p>
<p>
[quote]
college is not just about admitting the smartest people who can come and get good grades and study a textbook; it's about talking with your peers and professors about their life back home, staying up late to talk about the presidential elections with a doormate, it's about expanding your horizons.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How does this apparent inability to do stuff have anything with being of Asian descent as your thread title suggests, furthermore are you implying that the "smartest people" who do well in school are incapable of such conversation?</p>
<p>I for one believe it is wrong to discriminate or give leverage to students for something that they have no power over, such as whether they were born into an Asian family. </p>
<p>Give people credit for what they have accomplished, not for what they were given.</p>
<p>So LaxChamp, basically you're implying that Asians aren't capable of doing what you listed, and that they can only get good grades and study textbooks.</p>
<p>Thanks for enlightening me.</p>
<p>Stop trying to misinterpret my posts please. All I said was that there should be a diverse class and that admissions shouldn't be merit based.</p>