<p>I have always wondered why there are so few sororities and fraternities that are diverse. And I'm not talking about sororities and fraternities with a token minority. I'm talking about ones that are actually diverse. It seems that aside from the ones that a specifically designated to be multiracial, they are all just one race. Why is that and how is that legal? Wouldn't that promote racial segregation on campuses that are heavily dominated by Greek Life like Florida or Vanderbilt or USC? </p>
<p>A token minority is basically a pretty decent proportion because that’s why they’re called minorities. According to the actual population of the united states if you have 50 students in a fraternity/sorority then 39 of them should be white and the other eleven should be other races. Then it seems even worse because there appears to only be one or two asians and three or four blacks. It may appear segregated but it actually is decently diverse. An equal amount of whites vs minorities would lead to an unfair distribution with respect to whites and indicate that something unfair was going on. It’s legal because they’re not stopping minorities from being accepted (those organizations get shut down pretty fast) it’s just that more whites rush.</p>
<p>
I have two responses to this. 1. What is inherently wrong with having an equal amount of people of each race? If people are being selected just because they are white to represent the diversity of the US, how is it wrong to have minorities selected to promote the diversity of Panhellenic Greek life?</p>
<ol>
<li>Obviously more whites rush because there are more white people in college. However, that doesn’t explain why they are so segregated. If more white people rush, how does that translate to having more ethnic groups separating?</li>
</ol>
<p>I don’t have an answer but I read a few articles and this is what stuck out to me:</p>
<p>" 'I hate to tell you guys this, but sororities are not the last segregated institution in American life. We’re far, far from the ‘final barrier,’ " wrote one commenter on the student newspaper’s website."
<a href=“http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/09/rushing_a_white_sorority_what_i_learned.2.html”>http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/09/rushing_a_white_sorority_what_i_learned.2.html</a></p>
<p>“The recruit, who asked to remain anonymous, seemed like the perfect sorority pledge on paper, yet didn’t receive a bid from any of the 16 Panhellenic sororities during formal recruitment. Gotz and others said they know why: The recruit is black. She and at least one other black woman, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of personal safety, went through formal recruitment this year, but neither was offered a bid.”
" ‘People are too scared of what the repercussions are of maybe taking a black girl,’ Gotz said."
<a href=“The Final Barrier: 50 years later, segregation still exists - The Crimson White”>http://cw.ua.edu/article/2013/09/the-final-barrier-50-years-later-segregation-still-exists</a></p>
<p>“Still, I believe that in the vast majority of cases, it is the sorority system, not the sorority members themselves, perpetuating the age-old practices of elitism, segregation and thinly-veiled prejudice. Tradition is worshipped in sorority life, upheld as holy doctrine by the alumnae determined to keep their sisterhoods frozen in time.”
<a href=“http://www.wbez.org/blogs/leah-pickett/2013-09/sorority-racism-legacy-needs-end-108690”>http://www.wbez.org/blogs/leah-pickett/2013-09/sorority-racism-legacy-needs-end-108690</a></p>
<p>One comment on a blog post about a black girl in an almost all white sorority was explaining how even though most of the girls were her friends, she still felt left out at times just because she was black, so maybe many black girls both rush and pledge but end up choosing historically black sororities?
<a href=“http://tracesofspace.com/2012/11/26/black-girl-in-a-white-sorority/”>http://tracesofspace.com/2012/11/26/black-girl-in-a-white-sorority/</a></p>
<p>“The University of Alabama student senate killed a resolution supporting racial integration of fraternities and sororities on campus.”
<a href=“University Of Alabama Student Government Votes To Leave All-White Sororities Alone | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>““It’s de jure illegal, but de facto in practice,” Hughey said. “The bigger point here is that the Greek letter system – all over the United States, not just in the deep South – has traditionally been based on exclusion….”
<a href=“Segregated sororities not limited to Alabama, experts say”>Segregated sororities not limited to Alabama, experts say;
<p>“The whole selection process smacks of elitism and reliance on age-old indicators of social value: Wealth, attractiveness, whiteness (or adherence to white standards of beauty and white cultural norms).”
<a href=“http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/02/26/sorority-upholds-the-sisterhood-of-the-white-pretty-and-thin/”>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/02/26/sorority-upholds-the-sisterhood-of-the-white-pretty-and-thin/</a></p>
<p>So from what I gather, it’s just the people who select girls (didn’t find much about frats) don’t realize that they’re being racist. For the most part. University of Alabama is the exception. With the constant stereotypes about black people being criminals, poor, dumb, etc. being projected in the media and most people only finding western features beautiful, I’m not surprised.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>What is inherently wrong with not having equal numbers of races represented? It’s not the job of the organization to promote diversity. It’s to create a bonding experience and a social gathering so people can gather and not feel alone. There’s also elitism and status that plays in but those are the core tenets that true fraternities and sororities try to uphold. I never meant to imply people were being selected to join because they were white or that it is wrong to have minorities I’m just stating reasons why there is not going to be an overwhelming presence of minorities in Greek Life. Another reason is a deeply psychological reason dealing with how different races interact socially. In a study they tried to ascertain why white kids usually sit with white people at lunch and why black people sit with other black people at lunch. It wasn’t because they were racist or segregated, the students just felt comfortable with kids of their own race. Then they asked the kids if they would allow kids from the other group to join. They said overwhelmingly yes, but when asked if they would go over and ask to sit with the other group the kids said they would feel unwelcome. The main point being that people feel more comfortable with people of their own race which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. This could also contribute to lack of diversity.</p></li>
<li><p>I kind of explained this in the 1. but to expand. I’ve only really seen a couple of fraternities not be white dominated that weren’t an actual race organization with one of them being an athletic fraternity where minorities are usually over-represented in sports. Most fraternities do end up going in the direction of where the statistics say with about the same distribution as that of the college. This only changes if there is real institutional segregation and racism going on which is pretty rare.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don’t think most organizations are segregated or racist at all. Unless if they are actually institutionally not recruiting minorities by having policies, whether written or normalized, promoting such actions they have every right to be completely minority free if they so choose. It’s just like with regular people; you get to choose who you hang out with and just because you choose a majority of your friends to be of one race doesn’t mean you’re a racist it just means you value their company over alternative options.</p>
<p>
</p>
<ol>
<li> The pool of potential fraternity/sorority members would be students at the college, not the US population as a whole. Demographics may differ.</li>
<li> The US population is 78% white, but only 63% non-Hispanic/Latino white.</li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li>Why I said, “Most fraternities do end up going in the direction of where the statistics say with about the same distribution as that of the college”. Obviously at some southern universities where the population is 90% black you are not going to get a majority of whites in the Greek Life organization.</li>
<li>The 63% number doesn’t really mean too much because latinos who consider themselves white are usually pretty close in appearance for the most part to other white Americans and usually don’t have as heavy a background in Hispanic culture and because of this it makes it easier for white members of the organization to relate to them. People who are completely latino or consider themselves fully latino usually speak spanish much more fluently and practice a lot more of the culture from their hispanic background</li>
</ol>
<p>@jimmyboy23
In my opinion, this is problematic. Sororities and fraternities have an obligation to make it so this isn’t the case on their campuses. I feel as though in order to put an end to racism, people need to interact with other races and be exposed to other cultures.</p>
<p>The thing is that, as I alluded to earlier, it isn’t the job of any organization in the Greek system to promote diversity. If they choose to make that one of their missions then that is their choice but they are by no means obligated by any stretch of the imagination. </p>
<p>The study doesn’t suppose anything problematic. It merely suggests that we feel comfortable with people that look like ourselves or have similar backgrounds. It actually dispelled the notion that the behavior was intentionally racist. Once again from an evolutionary perspective it makes sense because our ancestors would have need to tell who was from their tribe/clan and would stick with these people in order to have better chances to survive. </p>
<p>Also, we don’t need any interaction at all to end racism. Racism only ends when a group builds respect for a culture and says that their culture is not inherently superior in some way. In fact, the world could be completely segregated and still not have any racism if people of all races believed they were equal. Likewise, a group could have all the interaction with another group and their culture but it doesn’t amount to anything until respect and appreciation starts to form. Interaction and integration are not cures to racism.</p>
<p>Also, it can be argued that diversity is not necessary for the goo of the country or any organization. Just look at China where over 91% of the country is Chinese. They are considered a world superpower or at least up-and-coming. Diversity is not really a tangible advantage; it doesn’t build respect or progress or innovation. Diversity is something nice to have but it doesn’t provide any true advantage for the organization so now my question is why should they promote something that doesn’t give them incentive to promote. They shouldn’t institutionally segregate or discriminate but they also shouldn’t actively promote diversity or equal representation if they choose not to.</p>
<p>@jimmyboy23 I know there is no legal obligation. But isn’t there a moral obligation?</p>
<p>Diversity is not necessary for economic progress, but it is necessary for social progress. (But as a side note, most of the people in China live on or below the American poverty line. So I think that is a poor example. Because even though the nation is a super power, a staggering amount of people live in poor conditions.) It’s rather obvious that people feel comfortable around their own kind. But that doesn’t mean that you should exclude someone based on solely ther race. That doesn’t explain why it appears as though Greek life goes out of their way to exclude certain races on all sides of the spectrum. Maybe it’s because I live in the Mid- Atlantic region, but it seems like diversity is the only way to have social progress.</p>
<p>I completely understand the point about elitism. I just don’t seem to understand how people still feel that way today. </p>
<p>Sororities and Fraternities were, historically, white and christian. Many people who join pick a particular house because of a relative who belonged, and that relative is usually the same race and religion, prolonging the trend of all white/all christian. As stated above, they aren’t recruiting from the general population, but from the school’s population, so while the population of Alabama might be heavily black or hispanic or Asian, the population of UA is still 80% white.</p>
<p>Added to this, there are houses that are historically black, not part of Panhel or Interfraternity Council, and those statistics are not included when Panhel or IC reports. Legacies from those houses might want to join the house their parents or grandparents were part of to continue their traditions.</p>
<p>I was in a sorority, and we did have one minority member (and several Jewish members, which was considered a minority). That was representative of our university at the time but had nothing to do with those people joining (I don’t remember the topic EVER being discussed. My daughter is hoping to join my sorority, and we’ve never even considered that her race (Chinese) would keep her out. Her school is about 25% minority, and the sorority houses seem to have that same mix.</p>
<p>There is no moral obligation beyond giving them an equal opportunity to join. Let them rush, let them participate in all of the probationary activities, and then don’t deny them access based on their race. Those are the social obligations any American organization holds. They do not have a moral obligation to recruit or equalize the numbers of minorities.</p>
<p>The thing about China is that most of the population is still agrarian. It’s like how we perceive farmers here in the US are they below poverty line, yes, but they are still perfectly able to provide a stable living and are not unemployed or homeless. As the country continues to industrialize you will see a much different country, mire cities will start to look like Hong Kong and Beijing. </p>
<p>I also said previously that most organizations do not “goes out of their way to exclude certain races on all sides of the spectrum”. It’s simply them choosing from the pool of applicants they have and making choices that will make the organization better (diversity usually is not the cause of bettering an organization). Some do this like UA because it is so deeply ingrained in the culture but like I stated above these institutions are rare.</p>
<p>“But that doesn’t mean that you should exclude someone based on solely their race”. You’re going to have to reread what I typed about the psychological study, because this is the exact opposite of what actually happened.</p>
<p>Diversity doesn’t promote social change. All it does is literally cause people to be exposed to other cultures if even that. It wouldn’t help end racism on its own because a person who is racist could talk to twenty people of another race and just rattle off reasons why talking to them reaffirmed is own race’s superiority. A good white racist will say that the only good thing about diversity is that it exposed the inferior races to the superior white race because there is evidence that other races actually benefit from white cultural to an astronomical extent.</p>
<p>Everybody is elitist if we get right down to it. The kid who is in advanced courses is elitist towards the kids who are in regular courses. The manager is elitist to his employees. The elder is elitist to his company. We are all elitist because we live in a class-based society. You’re elitist and I’m elitist and everybody around us is elitist.</p>
<p>@jimmyboy23 That’s all great. But it still doesn’t answer why those who are selected into Greek life typically are only the race of the people who are already there. If you look up chapters at even the most diverse schools like UF or UCF, they are still extremely segregated. So it doesn’t reflect the student body. Also, I understand the study you cited. However, it is unreasonable to think that minorities don’t rush for traditionally white sororities and vice versa. If there are those who are comfortable being among people other than their race, why are they rejected?</p>
<p>UCF and UF are really not that diverse; just from my seeing a lot of students from both schools and going to orientation at one they seem just averagely diverse but with a much heavier hispanic population but that is because it is Florida. The data from UCF says that 60% of their students are white and that the only large deviation from US population is in Hispanic students which jumps to 20% and UF is very similar with 60%white and high levels of hispanics but also a slightly higher level of Asians. So basically just walking around the campus of either school gives you a pretty clear picture of how diverse they are. I just don’t think that a jump in one race is really tantamount to being the most diverse schools in the country.There doesn’t appear to be any segregation factor in them either. Most of these organization members are very eager to have anybody come out and rush and very supportive of people who do attempt it no matter what race they are.</p>
<p>As for the question, they are rejected for the same reason as why schools usually don’t accept 50% white and 50% minorities. Other organizations follow the same path. If you have more of one race than another then that race just statistically makes it more likely that a higher number of people from that race will get accepted. The numbers fluctuate slightly from year to year but they reasonably follow a pretty stable trend.</p>
<p>To illustrate, you have 5 people competing in any sort of challenge. One is a minority and the other four are white. You would bet on a white person winning because there are more combinations that result in a white person winning, whereas if you bet on a black person there would only be much fewer situations where that would occur.</p>
<p>The same reason that sororities do not take men and fraternities do not take women. They are trying to find people like them. Even within the racial profiles you will find that some houses have completely different types of students who are pledged. Legacy is a big thing with most houses. If your father or grandfather was in, your chances are almost automatic. Some houses look for big numbers, others are more exclusive. Ultimately, it is the current membership that decides who will be offered. Regardless of which groups you are talking about, they all tend to invite people the most like them. People also tend to rush houses that are most like them. </p>
<p>The thing is, a good well-run house can tell when someone is rushing just to make a point. It is hard to go ‘undercover’ rushing a house and do a good job of sounding sincere.</p>
<p>Freedom of association means that people can freely choose to hang out with other people like them. If you don’t like it, don’t join them. There is no way to force people to get along with everyone. Would you be comfortable being the only white guy in an otherwise Hispanic or African-American greek house because the college or government said they had to let you join? That would be comfortable. (not) There will be some individuals who ‘fit’ into houses that are predominantly another race. But it has to happen organically. You cannot try to legislate it.</p>
<p>@jimmyboy23 But I wouldn’t bet on a white person winning 100% of the time. In some schools, that is the case.</p>
<p>I have never seen or heard of a campus (besides the obviously racist and segregated like UA and a couple other southern schools) with multiple organizations that were completely white.</p>
<p>“I know there is no legal obligation. But isn’t there a moral obligation?”</p>
<p>I have a moral obligation to treat people of all races fairly. I don’t have a moral obligation to make my set of close friends exactly mirror the population. I’m white and the majority of my friends are white, just like me. Am I obligated to go make some black friends? </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl No. Of course you aren’t obligated to do anything by yourself. But in my opinion, colleges have a moral obligation go promote the diversity of the campus and make it do that more students hang out with those who aren’t exactly like them. </p>
<p>That’s exactly what Harvard did back in the day. They were upset that different races would always stay in separate houses on campus and wanted their student body to be more open, tolerant, and accepting of more people. When you only hang around your race or gender, you tend to believe stereotypes about people who are different than you. So they completely integrated dorming. Which is why now they have coed dorms and non segregated dorming. </p>
<p>But the moral obligation arises from anti-racism policies set in an institution, which could promote reverse racism such as it is happening in South Africa after the end of Apartheid (e.g. the sign-language translator at the Mandela funeral). I think that Fraternity organizations have the right to be separated by race to a certain point because in essence it is a brotherhood, so the people chosen are those that the current members feel will fit in the best. There is a racism problem that occurs on campuses, but I dont think Greek Organization are responsible and if they are it should be the university cracking down on racist parties (Compton Party made the news same with a another one about ‘thots’". The university should be instituting policies that promote equality without forcing a quota. So realistically banning Greek Orgs. would be more helpful to promote “diversity” and “equality” in a campus than encouraging Greek Orgs. to accept more minorities.</p>
<p>It can be argued that Affirmative Action does more harm than good in the current day and age, and many institutions might feel pressured to accept URM’s due to a threat of being sued by the NAACP or similar organization. Instead the focus of AA should be for the lower income ranges to give them the opportunity at gaining the “connections” necessary to enter several high paying professions in the U.S.A.</p>