Why is high school important?

Pre-College Issues High School Life
1

<p>I'm not some kid who just doesn't care about anything. I used to be 5th in my class out of a 1000 or so kids, and my high school is really competitive. I'm like 35th now because I totally don't care and none of this matters at all. </p>

<p>My post asks the question "why is high school important to you personally". Tell me what motivates you to go through it every day, because I totally no longer understand it. However, before you make a generic response, read what I have written below to make sure you are making a cogent argument. I'm asking you guys, because it seems this community would probably have a lot of people who think high school is very important. I challenge all of you to prove me wrong, to prove that school serves a greater benefit than detriment. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>I will honestly never use what I learn in real life. The internet makes learning trivia rather silly. I can look up the rivers in africa, or a physics formula when I need to know them, rather than memorizing them. I could understand it being useful during the early 1900's (when the US education system was designed for the most part) because that was before the advent of the internet, but today it's as useless as your appendix. </p></li>
<li><p>School hardly teaches "skills" or to "think for yourself". Schooling usually represses critical thinking - it emphasizes a "right and wrong answer". Thinking outside of what is pedagogy in english is usually punished with lower grades, math is a series of formulas, history is facts not thinking. Schools usually try to avoid critical thinking anyway - they get rid of philosophy and debate classes because intellectual free thinkers reject the binary pedagagy of the system and undermine their authority.</p></li>
<li><p>People who say it will "help me in college" have circular reasoning - if it is meaningless, now then it is meaningless in college as well. Even if that's not true, hy not go straight to college? </p></li>
<li><p>In addition, the argument "learn history, or history will repeat itself" is bull, history has repeated itself as long as history has been taught. If history is supposed to serve that function, then it has empirically failed so we should cease to use it. If anything, history causes itself to repeat - it allows us to learn the subjectivities of our past as if they are objective to silence criticism and mobilize hate towards "radical" ideologies. Palestinians learn in history how Jews are "vermin". The Japanese learn that the US nuked them "for no reason". We learn that communism and socialism are <em>irredeemably</em> bad, when there is serious argument for the opposite. My history book tells me the ideals of american "democracy", when every political scientist agrees america is a republic and every sociologist agrees that the poor and disenfranchised have little voice in policy over rich corporations and lobbyists. Yet it is the same ideology which allows us to invade other countries to "help" them with these "ideals". History causes itself to repeat. </p></li>
<li><p>canonical english literature does not teach american culture. All attempts to represent culture involve selection, all selection means some things will not be included, and, most often, what is not included is conveniently only not so for political objectives. In other words, we do not learn american culture in english class, and, instead, we learn a very skewed representation of it. For example, we learn poets like Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman wrote about nature, when they wrote almost entirely about sex. </p></li>
<li><p>We don't need math to "do my taxes" or something else in real life. I learned algebra in middle school. That's sufficient. I don't need derivatives or polynomial functions to do that. </p></li>
<li><p>School harms a love of learning. It represses it because you spend hours doing homework and going to school, leaving little time for reading what interests you personally. It was only after I stopped caring about school could I read what interests me. </p></li>
<li><p>The whole career argument has flaws. I might need <em>a very small portion of it</em> in my career but certainly not all of it, or even a sizable amount of it. Even if that's not true, should I give up my life in order to make money? According to psychological studies, if you compare a lottery winner to an average person 6 months after he or she won, there is no difference in happiness between the two. Money has nothing to do with long term happiness. There's probably a negative cost/benefit of fretting about school because school itself is unpleasant and the benefits it achieves are non-existent.</p></li>
</ul>

2

<p>I agree with you 100%. Especially that school ruins the love of learning; in this generation, school is a chore rather than an opportunity.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, few people feel the same. We just go to school because we have to.</p>

3

<p>I actually agree for the most part. The only reason why I put up with school for the most part is because I enjoying learning the endless facts and being able to master them. I do hate with a passion how they are presented.</p>

<p>I've had some amazing teachers who taught the most useless subjects ever that actually helped me to love that topic. I think teachers like that are rare and far between. If they taught in a matter to cultivate curiosity and free thinking, then yes, it would be benificial.</p>

<p>I agree with what you've said.</p>

4

<p>High school was designed to keep teenagers off the street during the week, and even so it's partly failed.</p>

5

<p>I agree with pretty much everything you posted. The sole reason I've tried hard in high school is to make it into a college where I could actually learn something of value.</p>

6

<p>Most of what you wrote is either opinion or based on your personal education. No one can say that high school is flat out not important. It's not important to you, and you ahve your reasons, but there will always be those who disagree with you. There will be those who love the structure and the lack of freedom. There are certain comforts I find in my current classical education, and there were certain ones I found in my past whole-child learning.
Most of the teachers I've had at my school encourage independent thinking. Many of them will speak in favor of communism and socialism, but I'm not taking traditional histories right now, so I don't really deal with that. My entire elementary education (Montessori) was all about independent and critical thinking.
You're giving a lot of subjects purposes they don't have to have. I never expected to learn about American culture in my English class.
High school work does prevent me from doing a lot of reading I love. On a day with no school work, I can complete a 400 page book. On a day with school work, I'll be lucky to get through 20. But by the time most students are juniors and seniors, they're selecting classes they're interested in. So if you're homework doesn't consist of reading that interests you, it's your own fault.
Really, I've never seen why something needs to have a purpose to exist or be important. I took Latin for 3 years. There wasn't much point to it. I can read Caesar's own words, I can figure out the few words I see on the SAT that I don't already know. But the reason it was important was because I enjoyed it. It's the same reason Calculus and Art History and Linguistics are important. I like them. Obviously, there must be some degree of relativism, but the most pressing part of importance is self-determined.</p>

7

<p>can you elaborate on your history bit?</p>

<p>are you saying that history should not be taught? or that history should be taught in a different way?</p>

<p>please elaborate. great post by the way!</p>

8

<p>Just wanted to note that not all high schools are the same...true, a lot of them are as you describe, but there certainly are schools (like mine) that employ a different approach to learning...</p>

9

<p>I think when responding people should indicate their school history.</p>

10

<p>there is no motivation, you only have one thought, YOU HAVE TO GET IT DONE</p>

<p>&& people in here question me, 'why do you want to graduate early?' You know now</p>

11

<p>i agree with Millancad. i'll try to counter all of the arguments you've listed:</p>

<p>--while learning a bunch of facts and formulas may seem useless, it sure makes your work go a heck of a lot faster. if you had to stop and look them up every time you needed them, it would take forever. in a foreign language, for example, you could reason that vocab is useless because you could just translate using an online dictionary. that would take ages though, so you are better off just learning it. the same goes for other subjects. also, you may not always be near a computer. so you'd be up the creek without a paddle if you needed to do something on the spot.</p>

<p>--you are correct in that school does not really teach you to think for yourself. but it gives you the skills so that you can come up with new ideas later. it would be difficult for chemists, engineers, etc. to come up with new things if they had never learned their algebra or basic chemistry. everything starts somewhere. you wouldn't be able to read if you had never learned your alphabet when you were a kid. </p>

<p>--the things you learn will help you in college. as i said above, you are learning the basics. you are trying things out so you can possibly find something you love. you can learn in depth about that subject area when you get to college. </p>

<p>--history is incredibly useful. yeah, maybe it repeats itself. and yeah, every country may teach their children with a different perspective on events. but don't you want to know why people did the things they did? don't you want to know how the world came to be as it is today? would you really want future leaders of the world to rule or take office without knowing about those who came before them, the decisions those people made, and the consequences of those decisions?</p>

<p>--maybe that is just your english class. in my class, we learn about all the things surrounding the literature we read. we openly talk about all of those sexual references and political statements. i'm sorry that your class does not do that. </p>

<p>--maybe you don't need math to do your taxes. if you don't think you need anything past algebra, then why didn't you take pre-algebra, algebra, and algebra II in high school? that would get you your credits. other people, however, need those higher math classes. a lot of technology that we have would not be possible without them. </p>

<p>--school does not harm a love of learning. high school is what you make of it. as millancad said, if you didn't take classes that interested you, it's your fault. if you like a subject, read more about it. you are not doing homework 24/7, no matter how many ap classes you may have. </p>

<p>--some people don't give up their life in order to make money. money doesn't make you happy. the reason that some (even if not all) take those high-paying jobs is because the JOB makes them happy, NOT the paycheck that goes with it. that goes for low-paying jobs too. so use high school to figure out where your passion lies. </p>

<p>as i said before, high school is what you make of it. you may have to do some things you think are pointless, but you will also have to do pointless or unpleasant things in real life too. </p>

<p>oh, and to satisfy wombatsoup, my school history is three different southern public high schools. they were okay for the most part, but nothing fancy for sure. so i don't say any of the things that i've said because i paid money and went to a school that i chose. (not a jab at private schools, just saying that i succeed in high school because of my mindset, not because of the guidance and great teachers that private schools seem to have)</p>

12

<p>My main motivation is to (probably) be better/more successive (by my standards) than AT LEAST 3/4 of the people at my school. Just wait until those HS reunions... it may seem shallow, but it's true.</p>

<p>Sacrifice my life now, for a better life later, I guess? For example, on a shorter term, if I get my SAT's done as a sophomore, I will have WAY less stress as a junior. And so I'll have more of a life than my peers as a junior.</p>

<p>I agree with a lot that you brought up, but hey, society has set this path for us to go through. I just suck it up since we have no choice.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
My main motivation is to (probably) be better/more successive (by my standards) than AT LEAST 3/4 of the people at my school. Just wait until those HS reunions... it may seem shallow, but it's true.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This will be my only reason to go to my class reunion. I doubt I will. When I'm out, I'll be out for good.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
I'm like 35th now because I totally don't care and none of this matters at all.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's not caring? Wow... </p>

<p>As the devil's advocate in the defense of high schools, I will try to answer your arguments. Though I believe that some of what you said is possibly true in some cases, I still think you are overgeneralizing and taking the best educational compromise we have for granted. The system isn't perfect, but the basic ideal for the pursuit learning and knowledge is still there. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>First of all, the "wonder" of the internet is overrated. Only a fraction of knowledge is preserved in the internet, and definitely with bias. It suffers from the very same process of "selection" that discriminates the existence of any form of knowledge. </p></li>
<li><p>Schools do teach skills and thinking in their way... I hate the liberal BS mantra of how our schools are failing our kids. Kids fail themselves, and the parents are at bigger fault for this trend. In the ignorance of facts, no thinking can occur, and schools function as a conduct for critical thinking. You think for yourself... the schools can't teach you to think. They just provide the tools to do so. </p></li>
<li><p>College is the same as schools... they give you knowledge. It's up to you to process that. Nothing is different from high school, just at a higher level. </p></li>
<li><p>History does teach us a lesson. Of course we see trends, but there is definite learning and progress. Humanity is a short lived creature, and the lessons must be learned generation to generation, but without them we would be in an even worse rut. Society has progressed, and tolerance along with it. Also, you're generalizing again. Not all Japanese/Palestinians share those false beliefs, and even for the US, the hair split between the concepts of a democracy and a republic are too advanced for younger students. We eventually get to that level... in high school, but only when they understand the fundamentals of the system. Everything needs a base... </p></li>
<li><p>Of course there is selection... but we are a system of compromises. A best possible set of solutions that will generally satisfy everyone. Of course we do not learn "American culture" in English... the concept of the American culture is wrong in itself. We learn English, the purpose of the class, and its best examples. That's all there is to it. </p></li>
<li><p>Math to do taxes? This is possibly your worst argument. Some people will hate math, some will grow to love it... I hate it, but several kids in my Calculus class decided to major in it in college. It's ultimately math and science that advances our society, and if high school can spark the interests of every generation, then there is some hope for our species. Math and science is in the core of our modern society (including your internet) and without it, we wouldn't be where we are now... </p></li>
<li><p>"School harms a love of learning" I don't know what school you go to, but I suggest transferring. :( </p></li>
<li><p>Screw the career thing... you're right. However, it's not for our careers... isn't the pursuit of knowledge the highest ideal of humanity? For its own sake? </p></li>
</ul>

<p>I really don't know what I typed up... its late, and I'm not going to re-check it... However, high school is like a buffet. You try different things, dabble in everything and see what you like best. The system isn't perfect, but society wouldn't be the same without it, and its ultimately for the best.</p>

15

<p>What about the social skills you learn? If high school didn't exist and people could learn all by themselves, there would be no mixing of different types of people. Yes, maybe you'd hang out with friends but that's easy. Learning to socially interact with people who you might not relate to is a needed skill, because I'm sure when you get a job, there will be plenty of people who you don't like but you still have to deal with them. And who wants to be the anti-social nerd who isn't really living life to the fullest?</p>

<p>Also, you can't learn to be a leader when there is no one to lead.</p>

16

<p>partay </p>

<p>10char</p>

17

<p>High school is important because if you want to make a lot of money you need good credentials (unless you hustle, which is looked down upon), and the easiest way to get those credentials is to go to a good college, and the only way to go to a good college is to do well in high school</p>

<p>It basically weeds out the hard-working conformists from the apathetic students</p>

18

<p>I think the point of learning something isn't the uses to which you can put it, but the way that your thinking matures as you learn it. Of course, like everything, learning has be skewed until it's resembled a competition to do the most busywork that doesn't interest you in order to get into a prestigious college so you can graduate and brag about it while working a job that pays you a lot of money... whee. A lot about high school has been pretty skewed... take AP classes. I think the concept there is that in every high school, there are really smart kids who would be bored in regular classes. Thus, advanced placement. But now everyone who wants to get into college thinks they have to take a million APs, so now it's basically the norm rather than something special. Everything's basically done to get into college. I mean, "ECs"?? Weren't those once non-class-related things that you did for fun because you WANTED to? Now they're these clubs you join just so you have put them on your college apps.</p>

<p>I'm not saying I'm an exception to any of this. There are definitely a few things I've done mostly because of college apps. It's a pain in the rear.</p>

<p>Anyway, I go to kind of a unique school where independent thinking is one of the things that are most emphasized, and getting into college isn't one of the main goals of the high school students. I'm one of the exceptions at my school in that sense. Maybe I'm the only one secretly competing for the GPA. :) My school has a lot of art. I get up to go in the morning because I usually have at least one class I look forward to each day. On Monday, it's calculus. Funnest class ever; we have four people in it because everyone else joined the slacker math class. I love math, and the other people in my class are hilarious, as is the teacher. It's a "laugh" in the words of the english. PE is also that day, which is always rather joyous. Lunch is fun. If I don't get up for a class I'm looking forward to, I'm going to school because we have homework to turn in or a test to take. At this point I'm getting to the point where any busy-work just annoys the crud out of my (I think it's senioritis) and luckily most of my teachers are teaching us pretty interesting stuff right now. If I went to a regular school full of textbooks and a million clubs I think I might go slightly mad.</p>

19

<p>hey you guys.</p>

<p>this post was about “what positively motivates you”, not necessarily whether my reasons why school is bad are true. saying my arguments are flawed means “school is not bad” rather than “school is good”. </p>

<p>to sum up the discussion, here are some of the positive justifications I identified: </p>

<p>1 - School means you learn important stuff (don’t have to look stuff up/ looking up stuff constantly would really suck/building blocks for future cool new ideas etc/matured thinking process) (secret777/charizzle)</p>

<p>This is true: learning is good and school accomplishes some degree of learning. We should learn vocabulary etc. However, this benefit is not unique to schooling, and thus doesn’t provide a positive justification for schooling. Learning can be done when needed. Engineers, for example, rarely know all the crazy formulas they need off hand because there are too many. If they need to know about a topic, they look it up. My alternative seems to do this equally well. </p>

<p>2 - Find out what you love (secret 777)</p>

<p>This is true. However, again, this benefit is also not unique to public schooling. I could talk to a counselor or look online to accomplish this task. </p>

<p>3 - Learn from past/to feel more successful than others (secret 777/mulberrypie) </p>

<p>These were straight up answered by the original post. Read that. </p>

<p>4 - No choice: just put up with it. sacrifice now for a better life later (mulberry)</p>

<p>Ok. Maybe. I might have philosophical objections here (I disagree that a “successful” or “wealthy” life is a “better” or even “good” life). If mulberry meant the good life as a “life of material possessions”, then I strongly disagree here. The reason why is in the first post. However, I guess if the “good life” is a life is one that requires a particular and very technical job, then I fully support that. In other words, if school is the means necessary to being your dream of being a neuroscientist, then it is a valuable thing. However, still, in this view, school is a means to an end for particular individuals, rather than an intrinsic value. </p>

<p>5 - school “weeds out the hard-working conformists from the apathetic students” (hustler032)</p>

<p>This is mostly a reason why society wants schools, rather than why any particular individual would want it. However, I think this is an important point.
School is, in other words, one of the ways that society creates and reinforces social rules. The “good” and “successful” people are those that do what they are told and put up with the processs. Only following and believing in society’s ideas can you “have the good life”. All the ivy-league kids on this site will probably agree both they themselves and others consider themselves to be the “pinnacle of society” and the “good people” who are doing the “right” thing. In this view, school isn’t something that matters because it achieves anything important, but rather as a symbolic ticket to what is “good and well with life”. </p>

<p>If it matters, I personally agree with the fourth argument: you just put up with it. I guess I’ll put up with like 4 AP classes next year as a means to an end which is personally valuable. </p>

<p>Thanks for the discussion you guys, I really appreciate the thoughts. It really helped me out in thinking about things.</p>

20

<p>I am too lazy to read all the previous posts, but the point of high school for me is exploration. You realize what the world is all about and learn your passions academically, mentally, physically, sexually, and personally.</p>