I mean, it is an amazing research school, it’s engineering graduates have some of the highest starting salaries.
If employers are ready to splash the money, surely the program is great, but why don’t the rankings portray the same?
Shameless bumb^
Rankings aren’t the most accurate thing in the world. Just because something is ranked low does not mean it is bad.
However, I personally think the engineering programs at UC Berkeley, MIT, Caltech, UMich, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Stanford among other schools are better.
UPenn I feel like is not known for a strong engineering program anyways.
What about engineering at princeton? Mechanical and aerospace to be specific.
As a (former) Penn engineering student, let me shed some light on it. Penn does not have a reputation as an engineering school and never has. IMO, it probably never will. Rankings are based on fairly subjective measures such as reputed program strength. The program strength is fine, but it’s nothing spectacular. The Penn name plays a bigger role in career and starting salaries than any special attributes of the students. Basically, beyond having an accredited program, Penn isn’t an engineering school. The students sort of go through the motions, pass their classes, do some basic research (btw, most of the research you hear about isn’t done by undergraduates. Most undergrads do basic data entry and sample-running), and maybe get an internship. If you want a real engineering school, go to one.
It is perplexing that a person in this thread is arguing that Penn really isn’t and eng. school, and in another thread on the same page, another poster is saying that the eng. school is too brutal for his student.
@engr2018 “The students sort of go through the motions, pass their classes, do some basic research.” I am sorry that you had to transfer out of Penn. I would love to understand your perspective that the students are just “going through the motions.” Clearly you spent a year at Penn, and had a much different experience than my daughter is having. I would love to hear more about it.
DD1 is a sophomore CIS major at Penn. She spends about 40 hours per week on homework and projects, if there are no tests. She spends another 20 hours in class, recitation, and labs. She is also a research assistant is actively involved with 2 clubs (one in a leadership position and one for coding experience) and her sorority. She is busy 7 days per week.
She says that if you are content with getting your degree, and do not mind being in the bottom third to quartile of the class and taking a lot of B-, C+, and C grades, it is not very difficult. However, If you are focused on keeping a healthy mix of A, A-, or B+ grades, then it is very challenging.
I am wondering which engineering program you were in, and how your experience compares to hers. It sounds like you did not find your classes that challenging. It could be that you were in a different program, were in less advanced courses, had lower grades, took fewer credit hours, were less involved in ECs, are just more talented or possibly all of the above. idk I look forward to hearing from you.
@engr2018 Penn might not be a true engineering powerhouse like MIT or Caltech, but saying that is not really an engineering schools is a bit too much. There are many departments at Penn that do cutting edge research such as bioengineering, nanotech, robotics, Penn Engineering organizes the biggest college hackathon in the country, Penn Apps. Top students who pursue it seriously, believe it or not, can actually do meaningful and rigorous research as undergrads, and there are quite a few who do that, although of course it is far from the majority, since may Penn SEAS students are interested in non engineering careers (as is the case with many ivy league engineering students). The reason why Penn SEAS students get such high salaries and have such a high success rate can be attributed to the Penn name a bit, but also to the Engineering school itself since it emphasizes a combination of strong technical knowledge, a brad lib arts education (seas students at penn tend not to be automatons) and pre-professionalism. In the undergraduate level I daresay there are few engineering programs that can combine a prestigious ivy league name, a very good quality of technical education accompanies with a broad liberal arts education and access to research opportunities. At the graduate level, a few departments are actual top or near top destinations for applicants, and the rest are still very strong and do great research. No one is saying Penn engineering is a traditional engineering powerhouse, but you are discounting it more than it is fair to.
Yes, some of the SEAS departments aren’t considered top-tier, although our nanotech, robotics, and computer science departments certainly are.
However, I’d like to remind people that undergraduate engineering curriculum strength correlates strongly with general undergraduate rigor and prestige. Remember, there are a good number of students who turn down schools like Cal and CMU to attend Penn to study computer science, to pick one major. In terms of the core engineering curriculum, I can assure you that Stanford and MIT classes aren’t any harder than Penn’s. (In fact, my friends at Stanford have told me that the core classes have been watered down to accommodate the fact that everyone at the school wants to study CS.)
Stanford, MIT, and CMU might ekk out Penn in terms of advanced upper-level classes in a major like computer science, but that’s really just a function of how popular comp sci has always been at those schools.
Don’t forget that there’s more to your undergrad experience than pure major strength. Even if, say, MIT comp sci were markedly better than Penn (and it isn’t for undergrad), the Penn social life is a valid factor in its favor.
Again, I’ll concede that as a research engineering institution, Penn SEAS isn’t at the very top (of course, it’s still an awesome place to go overall). That’s what the rankings focus on for engineering departments—graduate strength, not undergraduate strength. And the two are very different (think coursework versus research).
To further this argument, while most of my friends from Penn SEAS wanted to go into industry, the ones that did want to get a Ph.D are at now at schools like UIUC, Stanford, Princeton, and Columbia. So really, how bad can it be? (;
I mostly meant that I was discouraged because, as a whole, Penn isn’t focused on engineering. The SEAS students are a minority on campus, and though they’re usually excellent students, there often isn’t a lot of passion for science and technology across the University. Wharton has always been huge, still is, and I believe that Penn will always have a business slant. I found that, though rigorous, the engineering program tended to focus on entrepreneurship, startups, etc. Which is great, because a lot of students go into that, but to me it felt like they were teaching “Engineering for Business Applications”, which isn’t what I wanted, and what I feel contributes to a campus culture that doesn’t focus on engineering. Thus, unlikely to be a true engineering powerhouse like MIT, where pretty much everyone is an engineer.
Again, that might not be a bad thing. For me it was a letdown to an extent - my mistake for going to the Ivy League, but live and learn - but you’ll still do well if you get a degree from there. It depends what you want.
So it’s not that it won’t teach you engineering, but ifor you want a place with a culture focused on science and technology, Penn really isn’t it. Which is part of why it isn’t ranked as highly. It’s not their specialty.
It is true that Penn has a much wider range of students than just engineers. That is a plus for most at Penn. However they to offer housing options for students who want to be put together with like minded students if you prefer. I would also agree that an unusually high percentage of engineers are studying engineering and … something else. Either in a dual degree program, or getting a dual major, or in a special program like DMD or NETS.
At least one sophomore is working on a triple degree across three schools. Started as an M & T and wants to add a math major. That seems like too much to me, but every person is different.
With all due respect, what are you talking about? All of my SEAS classes were pure engineering courses. The only way I can see this statement could be true is if you’re pursuing the Engineering Entrepreneurship minor, and if you’re doing that, you do want business applications.
Please list the classes you’re referring to that feel like “Engineering for Business Applications.” This just isn’t even remotely close to my Penn experience.
@eng2018 you clearly are not a penn student. what are you even talking about?! Penn SEAS classes are pure engineering classes apart from the few ones that have to do with entrepreneurship, engineering economics, project management etc (there is an engineering entrepreneurship minor at Penn).
I would say that having students around you that are not in Engineering/Science or even quantitative majors is a plus - life requires you to interact with people with different backgrounds. Just as a personal (limited) experience, I think a significant downside of MIT is their graduates’ lack of ability to interact with folks who are not like them.