<p>hawkette, </p>
<p>According to USNews, WUSL is superior to Brown. I couldn’t believe that.But what about your opinion on this? Do you really believe that WUSL is superior to Brown?
Are WUSL students smarter than Brown students?</p>
<p>RML, </p>
<p>According to USNews, Harvard is superior to Stanford. Do you think that Harvard students are smarter than Stanford students? =)</p>
<p>If you wanna say that Harvard’s PA is the same as Stanford’s. Ok, then how about Harvard (4.9) VS Caltech (4.6)? Just like Brown (4.4) VS WashU (4.1). </p>
<p>I just wanna say that there is no such thing as one school’s students being smarter than another’s, especially among peers institutions.</p>
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<p>It’s not that difficult. You didn’t see any schools at all mentioned by name. I said that there was a small handful of schools where football prowess is not inversely proportional to academic strength. I didn’t specifically list ANY schools in that group, but clearly Stanford is one of the few schools that would be included in anybody’s list.</p>
<p>RML,
For the USNWR ranking methodology, Wash U scores higher than Brown. Is it “superior” to Brown? I don’t know, but it ranks higher…using…the…USNWR…criteria!! This is the part that you aren’t accepting-the criteria. </p>
<p>USNWR has published their methodology. If you don’t like it, then suggest an alternative method. What would be your methodology for ranking UNDERGRADUATE colleges? </p>
<p>My approach and suggestion to others looking at colleges is to decide on a legitimate criteria and then run the numbers. We may argue till the cows come home about the legitimacy of various factors and weightings, but IMO going thru the exercise and having to actually defend a perspective and a methodology is a lot more constructive than a bunch of declarative statements that ABC College is “superior” to XYZ University. </p>
<p>Bear,
Can a school have a strong student body and a less than stellar PA score? Or the reverse?</p>
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</p>
<p>No, USNews doesn’t say “WUSL is superior to Brown.” Anyone with any common sense at all reads the USNews rankings as “bands”, not as discrete numbers, and arguing about the education offered by any of the top 20 or so colleges is dancing on the head of a pin.</p>
<p>People who really think that #12 is superior to #14 (or whatever the WUSTL / Brown rankings were) aren’t smart enough to be IN a top 20 school.</p>
<p>USC spends millions of dollars on a FOOTBALL coach but cut its German studies department.</p>
<p>No school can do that and be considered a top school. Top party school maybe, but not a top school</p>
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</p>
<p>So, you don’t know? But how come you know that Emory (# 17) is superior to Berkeley (#21), or USC (#26) is superior to Michigan (#27)???</p>
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</p>
<p>Duke spends millions of dollars on a BASKETBALL coach but needs to cut about 1,000 positions.</p>
<p>No school can do that and be considered a top school. Top party school maybe, but not a top school.</p>
<p>Southern California is a directional school. No directional school can be a top school. Ergo, USC is not a top school.</p>
<p>RML,
My understanding was that you asked in #61 about a school, not a student body. Below is the respective data on their student bodies. </p>
<p>In every instance but Acceptance Rate, Wash U has the statistical advantage. In most cases, it’s close and probably not material, but there are a couple of relatively large differences, eg, % over 700 on Math and ACT score and % over 30. Given the acceptance rate difference in favor of Brown, my guess is that Brown could have matched the numbers of Wash U, but their admissions practices are possibly more holistic and less numbers-driven. </p>
<p>Brown</p>
<p>CR: 650-760
CR 700+: 58%
Math: 670-780
Math 700+: 66%
ACT: 28-33
ACT 30+: 66%
Top 10% Students: 93%
Acceptance Rate: 14%</p>
<p>Wash U</p>
<p>CR: 680-760
CR 700+: 64%
Math: 700-780
Math 700+: 77%
ACT: 31-34
ACT 30+: 85%
Top 10% Students: 96%
Acceptance Rate: 22%</p>
<p>As for your question on Emory, UC Berkeley, USC, and U Michigan, look at the data below. How would you rate the statistical strength of the student bodies at Schools A, B, C, and D? Why do you rank them in the manner that you do?</p>
<p>Acceptance Rate<br>
School A 22%<br>
School B 22%<br>
School C 27%<br>
School D 42% </p>
<p>ACT<br>
School A 27 - 33
School B 28 - 33
School C 30 - 33
School D 27 - 31</p>
<p>% of students scoring 30+ on ACT
School A 40%<br>
School B 63%<br>
School C 75%<br>
School D 44% </p>
<p>Overall SAT<br>
School A 1210 - 1470
School B 1270 - 1470
School C 1310 - 1500
School D 1220 - 1430</p>
<p>Critical Reading<br>
School A 580 - 710
School B 620 - 720
School C 640 - 740
School D 580 - 690</p>
<p>% of students scoring 700+ on CR
School A 29%<br>
School B 33%<br>
School C 45%<br>
School D 22% </p>
<p>Math<br>
School A 630 - 760
School B 650 - 750
School C 670 - 760
School D 640 - 740</p>
<p>% of students scoring 700+ on Math
School A 51%<br>
School B 50%<br>
School C 61%<br>
School D 46% </p>
<p>Top 10% Students<br>
School A 98%<br>
School B 87%<br>
School C 88%<br>
School D 92%</p>
<p>interestingguy,</p>
<p>even you know that’s an ignorant statement. by your logic, berkeley is a regional school because it only represents california.</p>
<p>having said that, i do agree with an earlier point that if usc is added to the “CC Top Universities” list, there would be many equally-deserving schools that need to be considered. (eg: U of Wisconsin, U of Illinois…etc)</p>
<p>Also, with regards to the football reference, Notre Dame pretty much proves that football performance in the recent years has little to do with academics. Despite having many “down decades” in a row, Notre Dame is still regarded as a better school than USC in general.</p>
<p>“Can a school have a strong student body and a less than stellar PA score? Or the reverse?”</p>
<p>An example of a school with strong student body and a “less than stellar” PA score: Caltech</p>
<p>Caltech (PA 4.6, SAT 1470-1560) VS MIT (PA 4.9, SAT 1380-1560)</p>
<p>4.6 is a stellar PA Bearcub. There are very few schools above it in that regard. MIT is also rated higher than Caltech at USNWR. You have to remember that MIT offers many more disciplines that Caltech too. Some of those don’t require perfect SAT scores in math.</p>
<p>^^^ </p>
<p>What is the definition of stellar PA? In my opinion, Caltech’s PA is less than stellar if we compare it with HYPSM and Caltech is often included in the HYPSMC. </p>
<p>Also, it’s really hard to measure the strength of the student body at different schools as there is no definite and accurate measurement. But if people say that Brown should have stronger student body than WashU, then I’ll have to ask why? Is it because Brown is an Ivy? </p>
<p>If someone said that Brown was a much better school than WashU ten years ago, I would not have argued.
But people have to learn to face the fact that a school’s reputation can change and that’s what happened to Oxford and Cambridge which eventually lost the title as the world’s best university to Harvard, which is a lot younger than the formers.</p>
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</p>
<p>If you care to read the story, you’d find that there was dwindling interest in German with 'SC’s undergrads. The department was rapidly moving to a 1:1 student/faculty ratio in upper division courses. Courses were cancelled due to lack of enrollment, ANY enrollment.</p>
<p>What do you expect the college to do with those German Profs? Pay them to sit around all day? Instead, when some of the senior faculty announced their retirement, 'SC decided not to fill their positions. The college still teaches Beginning and Intermediate German, however.</p>
<p>Instead of German, students have been clamoring for Chinese, Arabic, and the like. Doh!</p>
<p>^Some high school districts in CA do not offer German. Even for French classes at USC, there are less than 8-9 people taking the class.</p>
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</p>
<p>And yet, other schools (let’s call these schools “Top Universities”) managed to offer all of the above.</p>
<h1>USCfail.</h1>
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</p>
<p>What part of 'no-student-interest don’t you understand. How can you have a department without students? Do you suggest that USC start recruiting potential German majors? Offer them merit money?</p>
<p>Columbia: I would gather that most California high schools have phased out German. And, since USC receives a lot of its students from instate…</p>
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<p>But they probably don’t offer top notch film program or even a film program, do they all fail too?</p>
<p>UCB and UCLA are know nationally and internationally for their research. Their International ranking is high world wide. USC is not. It does not have the Nobel Laureates that UCLA and UCB have attracted. USC is known nationally for football but only locally for education.
They have a great local network. Who know, it may all change in the future, we’ll see.</p>