I think it will be fun to list the reasons why Michigan would be a great choice for prospective students. I will start
- lots of prominent alumni in business
I would go beyond just the prominent alumni in business, although Michigan’s list of CEOs (past and present), business founders and billionaires is certainly very impressive.
Michigan alums/past students in general are prominent in every sector, be it business, athletics (Brady, Woodson, Phelps etc…), entertainment (James Earl Jones, Lawrence Kasdan, Lucy Liu, Selma Blair, Madonna, Iggy Pop etc…), academia (long list of university founders, university presidents, Nobel Laureates/Fields Medalist etc…), politics (US president, long list of senators and law makers). According to Time Magazine’s algorithm, Michigan’s alumni network is tied for second place with Columbia in terms of influence, with only Harvard ahead of it.
http://time.com/27821/us-college-rankings/
If I were to add a Michigan quality to the list of reasons why Michigan is a great choice for prospective students, I would say that it is a very well rounded university. In fact, it is arguably the most well-rounded university in the country. Michigan is academically excellent across all disciplines, has a wealth of resources that students can benefit from, has a spirited and lively campus, both intellectually and socially in ways that few elite universities can duplicate, has a rich athletic tradition in most sports and is located in an ideal college town.
@bearcats I don’t think it is questionable that Michigan belongs in the top tier of colleges, but it is unaffordable for most OOS students because the school is very stingy with the amount of merit aid offered and the limited number of high stat OOS students who it offers merit aid to. And the school does not give nearly enough need-based aid. So the school is unfortunately not affordable to anyone outside the State of Michigan who is not rich or poor. So while I could go on about how good my alma mater is, the fact that i can’t send my high stat kids there and the fact it is not affordable to so many applicants makes it not one of the best!
@trackmbe3 michigan is a state school so why should they give money to out of state students? their purpose is to educate the residents of michigan based on tax dollars. also michigan has way too many out of state students (50%) who r willing to pay full cost. how do you get merit aid if everyone who gets into michigan is very talented and smart? if you want merit aid, go to a lower tier state school or harvard or princeton for better financial aid
UofM has $10 Billion in endowment and was among the top 15 schools last year with alumni donations. Their research budget I believe was around $1.4 billion. But more importantly University of Michigan is ranked highly across disciplines. They are just good at everything.
@Eeeee127
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A lot of state schools give money to out of state students (but Michigan, not so much, because–as you say, they don’t need to) who’s high stats put them in the top quarter of the applicant pool and can increase the schools’ academic profile of the entering freshman class. And OOS students add to the diversity of the student body.
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So, that’s what I did for my son, who got a lot of merit aid, honors college invite, and direct admit to the Fisher business school, from Ohio State. (OSU’s similarities to UofM-with similar bells and whistles, and solid academics, is the greatest form of flattery). And many private schools in the top 50 of USNWR offer significant merit aid and almost 100% of need based aid for very smart and talented students who are in the top quarter of the applicant pool. And these schools don’t have nearly the size of endowment as Michigan, which has over $9 billion. Surely some of that endowment can be used to be a bit more generous to the middle class applicants to Michigan.
Michigan has very significant OOS need-based aid. They have chosen to follow the Ivy model in that regard. Michigan also has a lot of D1 athletic scholarships and it is one of the few schools that combine outstanding sports and athletics with scholarships.
if you can get into umich out of state, then you can get into other elite colleges that offer better financial aid and merit aid
trackmbe3, Michigan was historically unable to provide too much FA for OOS applicants. However, the latest fund raising drive was aimed at improving that. The University is not quite there yet, but it is my understanding that it is currently doing a decent job of proving need-based aid for OOS students, with the hope of improving further with time.
Michigan is still far from meeting the “Ivy Model” for financial aid for out of state students. Take it from a current out-of-state student (who knows several other out of state students in a similar situation). My evidence is not empirical, but try out the Expected CoA calculator yourself for OOS with various income levels in the 100-250k range with reasonable assets. Compare that with Ivies, and you will see quite the disparity.
@yikesyikesyikes if you can get into umich out of state, then you can get into ivy leagues which provide better financial aid.
That is certainly a misleading statement. Michigan OOS, in general, is easier to be admitted to than most/all the Ivies. Many of my OOS peers are Ivy rejects (including myself)! This is even for students who are from the “hardest” states to be admitted from at Michigan, such as California, New York, and New Jersey. I am from New Jersey.
@yikesyikesyikes well i know out of state people who get into unc chapel hill are good enough for the ivy leagues and there was an out of state person who got into princeton but rejected from unc chapel hill even though unc is not as good as umich. umich has the same act range as cornell. most oos people at umich can prob at least get into cornell or vanderbilt or similar schools. there are tons of out of state people who get into ivy leagues but get deferred/rejected from umich.
Perhaps MAYBE Cornell (still very debatable), but to throw all the Ivies in the same difficulty tier as Michigan is certainly wrong. The admission rates are something to look at, and if you look at our test score ranges and compare them to the Ivies, you will also see quite the disparity (we are reasonably close to Cornell, but outside of that you will see these disparities).
The Ivies are objectively harder to get into. Yes, sometimes you get students who are admitted to an Ivy, but not Michigan. This is much more common the other way around.
Also, OOS for UNC Chapel Hill is arguably more competitive for admissions (not saying UNC is the better school by any means) than OOS for Michigan - since Michigan has almost half of its incoming classes OOS, while UNC has less than 20% of its incoming classes from OOS (I know this is incoming class sizes and not admissions stats, but we can make some educated assumptions on OOS competitiveness between the schools with such a difference).
Also, if I am not mistaken, UNC meets the full financial need of non-international OOS students.
I am a current Michigan student, and I love my school. However, I think we need to keep ourselves grounded in reality so that we can make the best decisions to move our school forward.
@yikesyikesyikes then why are there so many in state people with 4.0 gpa and 34 ACT being deferred from umich while out of state people with lower stats are getting in? also, umich act range overlaps with ivy leagues. umich act range is 30-34 while harvard is 32-35, so half of the people at umich have good enough stats to get into ivy leagues. i got into unc out of state and they didn’t give me any financial aid even though my family makes less than 200k so i would have to pay double the price of unc then i would for michigan (I’m a michigan resident).
Are we really going to argue the basic statistics?
At Michigan it is harder for out-of-state students to be admitted (with exceptions for states where they do not get enough applicants, and potential exceptions, arguably, for international students who are full pay) - despite there being about the same number of available seats for OOS and in-state, you have MANY more OOS applicants than in-state applicants. My evidence in this case is far more empirical than your circumstantial evidence.
Also, comparing ACT scores only is faulty, since there is a lower range of possible scores. Compare ACT AND SAT scores. Even when comparing just ACT scores, pay special attention to the lower part of the ranges for Michigan vs. Ivies.
Back to the thread’s original topic: Michigan has seemed to do a good job in covering this test-score achievement gap, but there is still a good amount of progress to look forward to. This can be expedited if Michigan is made more appealing for OOS who get into other schools of similar and higher prestige by continuing to improve the financial aid given to OOS.
Also, here is evidence for UNC providing OOS full financial aid in msot circumstances (at least in 2013-2014):
https://admissions.unc.edu/files/2013/09/Financial-Aid-Fact-Sheet.pdf
unc meets full “demonstrated” financial aid as determined by the university so you might not get as much as you expected from your efc. also 38% of unc’s financial aid is loans which shouldn’t even count as financial aid tbh because you have to pay that back. public universities just don’t give as much aid as private universities to out of state students. @yikesyikesyikes also, I was wondering why do most of umich out of state students come from new jersey, new york, and illinois? new york and illinois have great colleges and rutgers is also pretty good. illinois has 10 times more students at umich than indiana even though indiana is closer to michigan. more out of state people come from those 3 states than the other 45 states combined.
@yikesyikesyikes michigan already has enough out of state students enrolling who are willing to pay full cost so if they did improve out of state financial aid, they would get way too many out of state students. also pretty much all public elites even unc don’t give amazing financial aid to oos students since they have to subsidize the cost for in state students.
Yes, I was referring to “demonstrated” financial need the whole time (it is what most colleges use for financial aid, although specific methodologies may differ). I did not know they counted loans as part of their coverage for meeting need, so thank you for bringing that to light for me.
As for why people from New York, NJ, and Illinois come to Michigan, here is my best guess:
Rutgers is not even on near the same level as Michigan in most respects, although it is certainly a great and respectable school in its own right. The same could be said of the state universities in New York. The same could be also be said of Illinois, with the exception of UIUC when it comes to engineering/computer science, for which it is largely on-par with Michigan (and a few stand out programs here and there like accounting). Also, I hear UIUC is not the best with financial aid, even for in-state (can someone confirm this?). It is also worthy to note that students in New York and New Jersey are plagued by the rather elitist Northeastern coast culture, which causes many high school students to evaluate their self-worth by what school/program they end up matriculating to (I would have included myself as one of these students, unfortunately). I know that there is a propensity for students in New Jersey to try to move out-of-the state for school.
Also, I do not think getting more out-of-state student applicants at Michigan is a problem. In fact, quite the opposite.
@yikesyikesyikes I mean over enrolling out of state students is a problem at umich if they give better aid (umich was facing overenrollment problems for years). Also new york and illnois have great private schools which cost about the same as umich. the state of michigan is the opposite: our public universities are better than our privates which is why only 10% of michigan high school students leave the state for college. i guess michigan has a completely different higher education culture than northeast students because we have many wealthy families who send their kids to michigan’s public universities.