Overenrollment can be controlled by tougher admissions standards.
And what great private schools are you talking about that can compete with Michigan’s prestige? Cornell, Columbia, Chicago, and Princeton are very tough to gain admission to, so for most people from these states matriculating to Michigan, none of those are even a choice in the first place.
yikesyikesyikes, you should not confuse admission standards with admission odds. Michigan’s standards of admission are similar to Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth and Penn, especially for OOS applicants. The mid 50% ACT/SAT ranges are roughly the same, as are the types of transcripts that the students that are admitted into all these schools usually have (3.8+ unweighted GPAs with a heavy load of AP/IB/A Level classes). And the quality of the students that end up enrolling at Michigan is also almost indistinguishable from those at the other schools mentioned above, particularly then it comes to OOS students. For the last 3 years, the ACT/SAT ranges for OOS students were 30-34/1330-1530. Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth and Penn are in the same ball park.
That being said, the odds of admission are not the same. Michigan admits 27% of all applicants, and 20% of OOS applicants, compared to the 8%-12% admit rates at the Ivies listed above. As such, it is fairly common for applicants who get into Michigan not to get into an Ivy League. But make no mistake, it is also fairly common for applicants who get into Michigan to also get into Ivy League schools, and it is not unusual for some of those end up choosing Michigan.
As for private universities that match Michigan for prestige, one must first consider the demographic. For example, are we talking about high school students and misinformed parents or leading members of academia and corporate recruiters at major companies? In the case of the former, Michigan’s private peers will be schools like Boston College, Emory, Georgetown, NYU, USC to name a few. In the case of the latter, Michigan’s private peers will be schools like Cornell, Northwestern and Penn.
https://www.michigandaily.com/section/statement/numbers-game this is interesting about the increase of out of state students at michigan taking in state students’ spots. it seems that michigan does not have the same commitment they have to in state residents that unc has.
@Eeeee127 you are fixated on the “taking resident’s spots” thing. It is easy to demonstrate that the OOS stats for applicants are demonstrably higher than IS app stats. It’s a fact. (Even if it weren’t shown in their own stats, There are so many more applicants from OOS, so it just isn’t possible they would be less selective).
Michigan taxpayers do not give enough to UMich to pay for more IS spots. You can’t give $10k in state aid to a school and expect them to only take IS kids at 11 or 12k a year when the cost is nearly $50 or 60…so your thinking that Michigan taxpayers support the school is magical thinking when you try to expand it out to “all the spots”. The school would not survive. It’s just math. Someone has to pay the difference…either taxpayers contribute more or…
Enter NY, NJ and IL (CA?) Those 3 are the most represented bc the represent relative high cost areas where wealth can be accumulated to pay 56k a year for school.
You should be happy for OOS kids. They keep you IS tuition down:)
“Enter NY, NJ and IL (CA?) Those 3 are the most represented bc the represent relative high cost areas where wealth can be accumulated to pay 56k a year for school.”
That is correct HRSMom, but do not forget international students as well. In fact, many OOS students receive aid and scholarships. International students do not receive either from the University. We are talking 2,000 undergraduate students paying full tuition.
The 10 most represented states are:
@HRSMom if you look on the deferral thread there were in state students deferred with 3.98 gpas and 33 act while out of state students are being accepted with lower stats and taking the very well qualified in state students spots… also umich doesn’t need out of state money for funding because their endowment is already high enough. they accept out of state students for geographic diversity. this is mentioned in the article i posted. all the other public elites like uva and unc are able to charge much cheaper in state tuition even though they have a lower out of state presence than umich so out of state students are not needed to subsidize the costs. in fact umich in state tuition is relatively expensive compared to other public elites that have lower in state tuition and less out of state students. . unc limits out of state enrollment to 18% but still charges their in state students only 8k a year and theres a huge disparity between test scores with unc in state students getting in with 27 act and oos getting rejected with 35 act while umich does not have that disparity in fact many in state students are being deferred with very good stats its not the oos student population that is bothering me its when an out of state student takes a very highly qualified in state students spot. in state students are extremely loyal to umich. out of state students don’t have as strong of that loyalty and connection that michigan residents have and are just going to umich for the degree and leaving right after graduation and its disheartening when an in state student with 33 act and 3.98 gpa who wanted to go to umich their entire life is deferred while an out of state student who just applied to umich because it was an extra school on the common app is accepted and takes their spot.
You really need better facts than the UM thread here. The actual statistics bear out the real facts, which are that OOS stats are higher than IS for admission, your anecdotes from CC threads notwithsatnding.
Who do you suppose donates all that $ to the endowment? If you eliminate OOS, the endowment fund would take a huge hit. So, yes, they do need the OOS $. The article is funnt with the politician saying they use the $ to plug the budget gap bc they can’t contain costs. When in reality they close the gap bc the state gives so little.
You are arguing with emotions, not facts. Not everyone gets to go to their own elite IS flagship. If they were all IS only, I suspect the “eliteness” would be gone soon after, along with the $ and diversity.
PS: im sure the deferred 4.0/33 will be accepted. Its a nearly 50% acceptance rate.
@HRSMom then how is unc able to charge their in state students only 8k a year but they have much less out of state students? at unc out of state students have much higher stats than the in state students who are accepted but out of state students are still rejected. also umich in state acceptance rate is 42% not 50%. umich has always been an elite school even when they had only 30% out of state their ranking has always been very high. also michigan is unique in that we only have one elite flagship while the other elite public universities are located in states with multiple elite publics like uva, w and m, etc. all other public elites’ states give very little and their in state tuition is still cheaper. uc berkeley has lower percentage of out of state students than umich but is still considered elite or even more elite. also umich gets 47% of their endowment from the health system and only 17% from tuition so their endowment would still be very high without all the out of state students. https://www.quora.com/What-makes-the-University-of-Michigan-so-rich-compared-to-other-top-public-universities-in-the-U-S
UNC gets 20% from the state plus ancillary $. Only 13% from tuition, Endowment is ~3.3bn 29,000 students(this data is 5 years old)
http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budget/documents/2013/2012_revenuepiechart.pptx
UM says they get about 16%, 71% comes from fees and tuition. Endowment 9.7bn. 44,700 students
http://vpcomm.umich.edu/budget/fundingsnapshot/5.html
interesting info…
@Eeeee127
umich is basically the most private public university in the united states. lots of people think umich is a private uiniversity when its a public. @HRSMom umich has always been highly ranked in all their programs even before they had a large percentage of out of state students
http://www.ur.umich.edu/0001/Apr02_01/3.htm
this is rankings in 2000 when umich had a much smaller percentage of out of state students but was still ranked highly, actually higher than it is today.
From looking at their budget for 2016, looks like the difference is UNC includes ancillary revenue from hosp/research in their student budget in some for, and UMich does not.
I am well aware it is public. I grew up in Ohio.
It had a very large (nearly 45%) OOS even in 2000
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/02/u-m_out-of-state_residents.html
@HRSMom http://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/cds_1998-1999_umaa.pdf
according to the common data set, it was only 28% so about 30% but it was still an elite school back then even though its acceptance rate was 60% but its programs were still all highly ranked. the act score was only 25-30 but umich was still an elite school back then.
2000-2001 it pops up to 39%!
@Eeeee127 have you decided on Michigan or are you still waiting for some RDs?
. I’m still waiting on rds but I will probably have to pay more for them so right now im still waiting to hear back from msu omsp (a direct med program i think ill get into) so thats going to be a hard decision since i love umich but having the assurance that ill get into med school is nice. @HRSMom
Yes, that would be awesome! MSU is great for premed, right? It’s a great school too. Underrated. I went to a non-flagship Ohio state school. They get overlooked!
@HRSMom yes msu is always overlooked to umich and a lot of people who go to umich think they are superior to msu students and they assume that msu students are umich rejects so its hard but msu college of osteopathic medicine (omsp a non-binding med program to their osteopathic college) is #15 in national primary rankings but i was just worried that becoming an osteopathic doctor would make it harder to be placed into competitive specialties like dermatology because I didn’t see dermatology on msu com’s match list but i think i’m thinking way too far ahead. tbh i would love to go to umich med school but its so hard to get in and most umich students who apply don’t get in. honestly i feel like msu omsp would be the better choice since med schools don’t care where you go for undergrad and i can always apply out but i feel i would be missing the umich experience and i’ll admit that it’s nice that umich has students from all 50 students you can meet while msu doesn’t have as many out of state students. also east lansing isn’t as great as ann arbor and most of msu’s buildings aren’t as pretty as umich but i shouldn’t base my decision off of these superficial features.
Let’s not forget the other half of the Ivies, which clearly have higher standards. @Eeeee127 's language lumped all the Ivies into one category and said Michigan OOS admission was about as tough or tougher - which is debatable for the four Ivies you mentioned, but certainly objectively false for the other 4 Ivies.
Right. I went to BGSU, know it? It was just as good for my needs as OSU:)
You have a good point of view on the option! Good luck!
@HRSMom yes i’ve heard of bowling green state university! it definitely gets overlooked to ohio state. my friend who is a michigan resident was accepted to umich art school and u cincinnati industrial design program and she just committed to ucincinnati even though she has to pay out of state tuition and she thought her whole life she was going to go to umich where her dad went. so there are definitely great non flagship options. @yikesyikesyikes i didn’t mean to lump them all together i mean oos people are good enough to get into an ivy league because the oos students at umich are very smart and talented. theres def a difference between cornell and harvard but they prob do give better financial aid than umich if you qualify.