<p>Our son (Junior in High) seem motivated to seek admission in a full academy or as NROTC, but we as parents are not sure if we can support his decision. Of course, the value of almost free education is great but why and how could we send our kid harms way? I do not have military tradition in my family and my wife's side had military tradition but she did not like it. For a smart kid (GPA 4.3 at TJ in Annandale, Virginia), why should Naval academy be a choice. Questions ringing in my head. How often they are sent to fight as an Engineer, he aspires to be one? What do Engineers in Navy do when sent to war, say in Afganistan or Iraq?</p>
<p>Try posting this in the Naval Academy Forum. You’ll get more knowledgeable responses.</p>
<p>Working as a commissioned Naval officer as an engineer, I would suppose that “being in harm’s way” would not be much of an issue. He could be the Engineering Officer on a carrier or some other mode of ship I suppose, overall a fairly safe position.</p>
<p>I hope your son makes a decision on this matter best for him, and you get over the “support him” issue.</p>
<p>Anyone anticipating a military career should be prepared to be sent into harm’s way. There’s no way to predict where someone will be assigned, or what the risks will be.</p>
<p>Also, anyone thinking about the military academies should be dedicated to pursuing a military career. That’s what they’re for, and why we as taxpayers support them. They also require a discipline and dedication that would make for a miserable four years for anyone who chose one just because it offered a free education.</p>
<p>@RSBuletz </p>
<p>… “get over the “support him” issue.” </p>
<p>Who are you to say what someone must or must not do when it comes to supporting (or not) one’s choices or actions, especially when that person is their child? </p>
<p>Clearly the father has some concerns and may not want to support his son in an endeavor to potentially put himself in harms way; maybe the father is against the military (or violence, etc) on principal; etc. </p>
<p>Not everyone shares your views, so why do they need to get over it and support him anyway?</p>
<p>It’s annoying to see the military academies promote the whole “it’s free” charade. They aren’t free - you have to provide 5 years of service after graduation (no such thing as a free lunch). Someone on CC did an analysis of the costs against attending a top school, and found that attending a military academy is about as expensive as attending a top private at full price (accounting for the opportunity cost, e.g. post-graduation salary). Consider that on top of the cost of being in harm’s way, and the military academies really aren’t worth it in general.</p>
<p>Of course, if your S *wants *to join the military anyway, then they’re a great option.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s ridiculous. Look at the cash flows you’re suggesting:</p>
<p>Top Private</p>
<p>Freshman Year: -~50,000
Sophomore Year -~50,000
Junior Year: -~50,000
Senior Year: -~50,000
First Year Out of Work: let’s say 60,000
Second Year Out of Work: 66,000
Third Year Out of Work: 72,600
Fourth Year Out of Work: 79,200
Fifth Year Out of Work: 87,120</p>
<p>Those salary numbers are pretty generous I’d say. 10% raise every year.</p>
<p>Compare that to a Naval Academy graduate:</p>
<p>First Year: ~$12,000 (stipend each month)
Second Year: ~12,000
Third Year: ~$12,000
Fourth Year: ~$12,000
First Year Out of Academy: $34,000
Second Year Out of Academy: $34,000
Third Year Out of Academy: $35,500
Fourth Year Out of Academy: $42,700
Fifth Year Out of Academy: $42,700</p>
<p>This is the lowest possible salary one could earn coming out of the USNA. Lowest officer pay-grade, base pay only, no promotions, nothing. There’s no way those two are equal. I don’t even know how you factor in the whole danger thing but the cost is definitely not the same.</p>
<p>OP, be aware that you don’t have to support your son’s decision. As you said, military academies are free so he won’t need you for tuition. He has good grades from one of the top schools in the country, so he would definitely be competitive for ROTC scholarships that are usually pretty generous. I’d support your son and know that if that is what he wants, that is what he wants.</p>
<p>*Quote:
Someone on CC did an analysis of the costs against attending a top school, and found that attending a military academy is about as expensive as attending a top private at full price (accounting for the opportunity cost, e.g. post-graduation salary).
*</p>
<p>Absolutely NOT TRUE.</p>
<p>While the above numbers are very good, they don’t even take into acct the extra bennies that those in the military get…often housing subsidies, free healthcare, etc. </p>
<p>I do take exception to the title. An 18 year old whose education is being paid for by the gov’t is not being “sent to college by his parents.” At that point, he’s free to go where he wants. </p>
<p>And as for being in “harm’s way”…there are areas in the military (engineering is often one) where you aren’t in harm’s way. You’re often here, in this country, dealing with the contractors who are making your equipment. To these contractors, you’re known as “the customer”. Having dealt with “the customer” for many years (AF and Army), none of those people were in harm’s way unless they were in some downtown American city.</p>
<p>Don’t worry too much. Competition in the Mid Atlantic area is so extreme it may still be hard to gain admission. DD was 3q last year with senator nomination. She was not even waitlisted. Actually, I secretly did the happy dance she didn’t get in to be honest. I don’t think I could handle worrying for atleast 9 years. I get what you are saying.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nobody can know in advance where the Navy (or Army or Air Force or Marines) is going to decide, in its infinite wisdom, what assignments the best interests of the service require for any individual officer. And once you sign the papers, it’s not up to you where you’re assigned. Anyone not willing to go into harm’s way when called upon to do so has no place in the military.</p>
<p>And broad, general, uncategorical statements that going into engineering means you’re not going to be placed in a dangerous situation are simply false.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In Iraq from 2003-2006, Navy personnel had a lower mortality rate than Army personnel, Marines personnel, or US civilian men age 20-34.</p>
<p>[Samuel</a> H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky?](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500940.html]Samuel”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500940.html)
[“Mortality</a> of American Troops in Iraq” by Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell](<a href=“http://repository.upenn.edu/psc_working_papers/1/]"Mortality”>http://repository.upenn.edu/psc_working_papers/1/)</p>
<p>Of course, the next war may not have the same characteristics as the last war.</p>
<p>Well, the Naval Academy isn’t for dumb kids (as much as AF Academy grads might joke, we’re not serious!) If he wants to serve in the military, the Service Academies or ROTC programs can be great choices. The Service Academies usually rank as some of the top undergraduate schools in the country. </p>
<p>Anyone joining the military must realize that they could be called to defend the nation with their lives, or the lives of the people whom they lead. That said, developmental engineers face those situations much less frequently than SEALs (almost never vs. virtual guarantee of seeing combat). A lot of the risk is dependent on what career field you are in, and what deployments you get.</p>
<p>If you are on the fence, I suggest you sit down and have an adult conversation. Topics you might want to discuss would be why he wants to serve, what career fields he is interested in, the risks he estimates, and the benefits and drawbacks of those choices.</p>
<p>I think ROTC/Military Academies is a great option. Serving as an officer in the army/navy/air force is considered excellent professional experience. The military requires excellent discipline, attention to detail, maturity and management skills. Those are transferable skills that are highly prized in any organization.</p>
<p>It should be noted that the three main academies are among the most respected institutions of higher learning in the US.</p>
<p>Whether I would recommend the ROTC/military academy path or not depends on the child and on the family. As some have already suggested, there are dangers associated with serving one’s country.</p>
<p>@OP - a quick answer to your question about engineers in the Navy; they are often engineering officers on vessels, working in program development, or working on ship maintenance. It takes a shocking amount of resources to keep those ships operating around the world. There are ships home ported overseas, but not in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan (!). Japan is probably the biggest and very safe. There is a big push on for energy-efficient ships and base facilities, so a lot of things for engineers to do.</p>
<p>People sometimes think the Navy and Air Force are safest, but only because those services haven’t faced a really capable opponent since 1945. Could be different in the future. Your son should carefully consider what he wants to do and how each service operates. Right now, the Air Force and Navy do put more emphasis on technical majors.</p>
<p>There are many other financial benefits to military officers, among them free graduate school along the way, and post-retirement benefits (including pension) that are still better than most of the private sector. However, your son should decide based on whether he wants a military career.</p>
<p>You also commented “why should the Naval Academy be a choice” for a smart kid. Military careers are not limiting in terms of advancement. 3 U.S. Presidents graduated from service academies. In addition, 30 had been military officers, 1 enlisted, and only 12 did not serve in the military. Meaning there are other ways to develop and demonstrate that kind of leadership, but the military is a very good way.</p>
<p>I don’t know what 4.3 means at that high school, although I’ve seen it mentioned on this board. I can tell you that service academies and ROTC primarily judge academics from class rank and standardized test scores. If 4.3 translates to the top 20%, it doesn’t carry the same weight as top 5% somewhere else, in that part of the score sheet. If TJ is really a better high school, that should manifest in higher SAT/ACT scores and make a difference in that part of the score sheet. They are trying to focus on what the student accomplished with the situation and resources he had.</p>
<p>These programs also highly value physical fitness and leadership. For a service academy, your son will need to do a number of pull-ups and for any of them, turn in a decent time in distance running. A few varsity captaincies and club presidencies mean more than a lot of memberships and volunteer hours. They are looking for people who will be able to lead 30 or more enlisted personnel from varied social and economic backgrounds. Speaking of which, that’s another benefit, there aren’t many other fresh-out-of-college graduates getting management positions at that level.</p>
<p>Anyway, your son would have to do most of the work if he wants to do this. Googling service academy forums would be a good starting point, and this is the right time to start. He should take the SAT this summer, if he hasn’t already done so. Also check into the medically disqualifying conditions, which sometimes surprise civilians. That could save a lot of wasted time and heartache.</p>
<p>This may be an insignificant contribution, but it speaks to the issue of relative value of military vs. civilian salaries. I am leasing a house to military officer, his wife and teen daughter. The military is providing him his salary while he is receiving a master’s degree in Finance (which the military is paying for). I do not know his salary, but do know he receives a $2900/month housing allowance. An additional $35,000/year on top of salary is quite significant for just housing-- health insurance, pension, px shopping, use of military facilities for vacations such as Hal Koa in Waikiki and likely other benefits I am not aware of add considerable value as well. I was surprised by the generous housing allowance.</p>
<p>Housing allowance (“BAH”) varies by location, rank, and whether or not the military member has dependents. For example, getting stationed on the east coast will more than double the BAH for someone currently stationed in west Texas or southern Alabama. However, housing prices double as well. Depending on where you get stationed, BAH can make a significant change in how much you receive each month, if you live off base.</p>
<p>BAH is based upon a periodic survey of housing costs across the nation (and the world) and is adjusted for local area conditions.</p>
<p>All the posts above were great. I just want to emphasize the point brought up by someone else, “let your son decide for himself.” Later on, if he does what you want instead of what he wants, you will be to blame. The one thing you have to do is give him all the information he needs about the academy and get him to decide the path for himself.</p>