In the undergraduate program, Northeastern has 18% internationals. The numbers above must include graduate (incl Law School, etc.) and undergraduate students combined.
Which is exactly what I said:
OK, let’s check those numbers. Let’s take the amount of $$ given to international students, and divide by the number of international students. All numbers are from the link you posted. Here’s how the top Massachusetts LACs rank by this measure:
Williams: $ 54,670 per international student
Amherst: $ 52,433 per international student
Wellesley: $ 47,606 per international student
Smith: $ 43,868 per international student
Mt Holyoke: $ 34,454 per international student
It’s true that MHC has most international students, and therefore the biggest international aid budget. But on a per-student basis, MHC gives less aid – not more.
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And in any case, the international aid budget is meaningless as far as what “working class American students get”. For that, let’s check the US Dept. of Education’s “College Navigator” database, to get net price for students in the $48,001 - $75,000 family income range:
Mt Holyoke: $ 16,280
Smith: $ 17,394
Wellesley: $ 18,007
UMass; $ 15,096
MCLA: $ 16,745
Fitchburg State: $ 13,849
The numbers speak for themselves.
The best financial aid from a Massachusetts liberal arts college would be from Amherst or Williams. But that’s because they are in a class of their own in terms of endowment wealth.
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Mount Holyoke is ranked at #66 (out of 170) on this year’s College Access Index at the NY Times. Not terrific but better than most. And I do not think it applies to international students at all (since they don’t get Pell).
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/25/sunday-review/opinion-pell-table.html
The Index ranks colleges on % of low income students (eligible for Pell grants), net price for low income students and grad rate for them. Details at:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/2017-college-access-index-methodology.html?_r=0
That is a ridiculous and xenophobic assertion. Mt. Holyoke meets 100% need of all students, and roughly 75% of its student body are domestic students. (See CDS at https://www.mtholyoke.edu/sites/default/files/iresearch/docs/CDS_2016-2017.pdf)
Mt. Holyoke is more generous than many colleges in that it does meet full need of international students, but it also has need-aware admission policies. Many international students are full pay – probably a higher proportion than the domestic students. More than half of Mt. Holyoke students get some level of need-based grant aid.
The only way you would get “screwed” for aid at Mt. Holyoke is if you don’t qualify for need-based aid.
But I do think you are making the right choice by not applying. You clearly would not be a good fit.
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And possibly not even then. Many students who don’t qualify for need-based aid receive significant merit aid.
calmom nailed it—if the OP has such disdain for Mt Holyoke and its “hordes of foreigners” (my sarcastic phrase, not the OP’s), then she should not apply–not a good fit at all.
D graduated a few years ago, we are firmly middle class (not pretend six-figure middle class), and she received good merit aid along with need-based. MHC cost her less than UMass would have cost. Then again, she was a good “fit”–has very warm feelings for her alma mater.
Wow ok so as someone who actually goes to mount holyoke a few things:
- At least a third of the “international” students are students with american parents who go to international schools as their parents are abroad for business purposes. I can instantly think of 5 friends in that situation. They are wealthy and can afford to go full freight to MHC. They also applied to other top schools, probably got in, and CHOSE MHC.
- Another good chunk of the international students come from cultures that are much more conservative and who value a single sex environment as a means of social safekeeping. They also tend to be some of the most hardworking students at the school. They see an MHC education as a lifeline and work their absolute hardest.
- There are the rest of the internationals, who are mostly TBQH the wealthy from their respective countries. One girl was the daughter of the most famous actor in her home country. Another was the daughter of a heart surgeon, the top one in her country of origin.
Also, the Chinese students you so disparage are known for going into the hardest fields MHC has to offer and acing the classes. I have to retake the hardest class in the econ department after dropping it due to difficulty and part of that had to do with the fact that the class was filled with east asian international students who ACED every quiz, test, and final so there were no curves on anything. They work incredibly hard and are some of the sweetest people you will ever meet, totally willing to chat and share notes if you’re ever stuck or need some help.
JMHO (and a few articles I’ve read) but aid often goes to who can pay “the rest of the bill.” For example, if a school cost 70K per year (total w/board) and the institution gives 20K in aid they want to give it to the student who can pay the other 50K without a problem. Many internationals can do this. Many working class Americans can’t. Private colleges are figuring out who they need to target to make their budget and stay afloat. The duel income, two professional parents who don’t qualify for financial aid fit this profile too. I’m watching private high schools/boarding schools do the same. Again, just my opinion but much of college admissions is a game and some of it is luck.
Mt. Holyoke is known to be fairly generous with aid. Colleges set aid policy on a collective, not individual, basis. That is, the college doesn’t care whether student A. only needs $20K and student B needs $50K – they just want to make sure that in the end it all averages out to a level that fits their predicted aid budget. The CDS reported MHC’s average need based aid was $37K and that roughly half of the students received grant aid-- so that is what counts for the school. If they take too many high-need students it will tax their aid budget, but if they take too few, then they would have unspent reserves,which might sound good on a superficial level-- but generally people who administer funds feel that they risk having their future years’ budget cut if they fail to disburse their full budget.
Because Mt. Holyoke is need-aware, they are able to factor in relative need, but that likely only impacts a small fraction of students on the margins.
I knew someone would accuse me of xenophobia for pointing out the obvious: Mt Holyoke gives vastly more aid to internationals than other colleges and has vastly more internationals than other colleges. Also, I am not “picking on the Chinese.” Mt Holyoke admissions officers bragged in an article that they got enough applications from China to fill the freshman class, so I have objective data there on the number of applicants. If I had objective data on the number of applicants from other countries, I would cite that. Why doesn’t Mt Holyoke release the number of applications from internationals vs US students! What is the average grant for an international compared to an American. Also, I love how someone told me I should reach out to the college and visit. We are too poor to own a car. Also, it is scary that the Mt Holyoke student said internationals were the one who took the hardest classes and got the highest grades. That suggests that top US students are not applying.
- If you are local, as you say, you have the PVTA.
- You can certainly email or call the college to express your interest, ask that they visit your high school or help you got to them for a visit.
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I don’t know about Mt. Holyoke admissions, but most elite private colleges are looking for students who take initiative and look for ways to solve problems on their own. My kids were not interested in most of the colleges that sent reps to their public high schools, and made arrangements to attend information sessions or arrange for alumni interviews with colleges they were interested in at other locations. My west-coast daughter wanted to attends schools on the east coast so she made arrangements on her own to travel across the country for visits. (Including self-financing one of two cross-country trips she made).
I suppose you are also too poor to afford bus fare or a bicycle?
There are young people in this world who view their life circumstances as challenges they can overcome, and there are those who view the same circumstances as barriers to resent, and are prone to blame others for their difficulties rather than taking stock of their own abilities and moving forward. I would assume that Mt. Holyoke is looking for students with the more positive, can-do attitude. Self-pity is not an attractive personality trait, particularly not in the world of college admissions.
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Calmom, your snide remarks are uncalled for and reveal an ignorance of western Massachusetts. The PVTA serves few towns and mine isn’t one of them. And no, I don’t own a bike. Even if I did, I couldn’t ride it on the highway. I am not xenophobic. My mother was born in a foreign country. I would be considered Latina based on my skin color and last name, although my father is mixed race white and black. I never see him and my mother does not have the time or money to cart me around to colleges. I raised legitimate points. Mount Holyoke has way more internationals than most colleges and gives way more of its aid to them. The comment be the mount Holyoke student that only internationals do well in hard classes suggests that top US students are not applying. If I were applying I would like to know what percentage of the applicants are international. I would also like to know the average aid for internationals versus Americans and the percent of the aid budget going to internationals. It sounds like the admissions office is catering to them because US students aren’t applying. Maybe if they made more effort, you wouldn’t have a school that will soon be majority international
I am not clear what your goal is with this post. If it is just to vent, OK.
If you truly would be interested in going there then reach out and let them know you’re interested (if you are) and ask how you might do a campus visit given your circumstances. Or ask your guidance counselor for his/her help.
If you are concerned about financial aid there, have you run the net price calculator? It is here: https://npc.collegeboard.org/student/app/mtholyoke
You seem to be asserting two things: that aid is being given to international students, thus depriving domestic students of help, and also that Mt. Holyoke is admitting international students instead of domestic students as a result of their ability to pay. Let me submit that these ideas are contradictory. I think Corbett’s posts 16, 17, 22, 23 show that quite well.
Mt. Holyoke has a high population of international students for a variety of reasons; we value the perspective they bring to the classroom and community, women from certain cultures value an all-female environment (and have a historical connection to the community), and, yes, full-freight international students help subsidize the cost for others - primarily domestic students, whose average cost of attendance is much lower than internationals. Mt. Holyoke’s reputation for giving good aid has to be understood in the context of the wider environment for international students - at many US schools, international students get no aid at all.
Mt. Holyoke is a small school with a limited number of admissions representatives. They need to allocate those people’s time in a way which will maximize the school’s exposure to the applicant pool - of people who will actually apply. For example, in my hometown, Mt Holyoke held its main event at my high school, which was a tiny all-girls school, because the students at my high school were clearly interested in an all-female environment. If they have historically gotten few or no applications from your high school, they may not hold an event there. If you are still interested, you have the opportunity and ability to pick up the phone and call the admissions office and ask for a packet of information, or for an admissions rep to try and set up something at your high school, or just ask your questions on the phone.
You have the right to be frustrated and annoyed at the process - it sucks, especially if you have to do extra work just to get on even footing. I won’t discount that. Should Mt. Holyoke make more of an effort to recruit in the surrounding towns? Absolutely. But you are focusing on international students as the reason locals are getting shafted, which isn’t true at all.
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Also as for the top US students not applying - I think you are out of line. My D is a National Merit Finalist as are other MHC students. MHC was not the only school she was accepted to, it is where she decided to attend after much deliberation. She has a very high GPA and test scores. Many of the other students I have seen here on CC are some of the top students.
I understand this process can be very frustrating. I hope you find what you are looking for. Many times in our search and through out this process we have been confused by why one college picks this person or that one. I suggest you focus on where you want to go and feel comfortable with their policies and student body.
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OP feels like she is being picked on or being called xenophobic unfairly, yet she keeps stating the same thing over and over, despite information to the contrary offered by others. She isn’t here to discuss, but rather just to INSIST her point of view is fact. She needs to differentiate between fact and opinion.
I will repeat what I posted earlier—OP should move on to schools that she doesn’t find so repulsive. MHC is what it is, and OP isn’t going to change that.
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@carman788, Carol Christ’s daughter, who is exceptionally accomplish and intelligent, is a MH alumna. She attended MH during Carol’s tenure as the President of Smith College. You might say Carol’s daughter had a significant hook and could have chosen any number of other elite colleges to attend, but she found a home in South Hadley.
MH should reach out to the towns that aren’t named Northampton, Amherst or Hadley… but don’t let the error of others affect your future.