USC financial aid is not very good. When we compared USC financial aid with Wesleyan University, Vassar College and Wellesley College, USC’s estimated parent contribution is at least $5k more.
I hope that USC can improve their financial aid package, so that more middle class families can afford it.
USC is a popular school since it’s currently regarded as hip, being in LA. It’s not a top academic school but many kids apply there since they want to be in a hip school (great campus, sports, some studies are excellent). The top students do not apply but imagine 50,000 students with 550-730 scores applying. So USC will take 16% of the kids (with 660-720 scores) but the top ones may choose elsewhere and lots of 550-600 scores get rejected. Northwestern isn’t as hip and their applicants might typically be 600-780 scores. So even if they select 29% the scores will be typically 690-740. Northwestern is choosing from stronger academic applicants.
USC now routinely rejects 4K+ applicants each cycle with 4.0 unweighted GPAs and 99th percentile test scores. That # is more than the total # admitted to Northwestern. USC could choose to fill their entire freshman class of 3000 with nothing but such stellar applicants… and pad their freshman profile #s in the process… but they instead are aiming for a well-rounded and diverse freshman class.
Here is the freshman profile if you want to see the real #s…
https://about.usc.edu/files/2018/09/USC-Freshman-Profile-2018-2019.pdf
And here is the Insider’s Guide to USC Admissions if you wish to truly understand their admission’s philosophy…
https://news.usc.edu/trojan-family/a-guide-to-uscs-college-admissions-process/
Ya that makes zero sense. Since USC truns away almost 4000 kids with 99 percentile scores every year, it is false to say top kids don’t apply and they certainly attend. Acceptance rate this year is 10-11%. For last year, since the middle 50% admits have 680-750 R/W and 710 - 790 Math, 31-35 ACT and 1400 - 1530 SAT, not sure where your numbers are coming from. I prefer facts:
http://admission.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/Freshman-Profile-2019.pdf
I will repeat what others have written above. Although USC has some programs that are very challenging, academically, like CS, it also has a large number of students in its School of Art and Design, its School of Dance, its School of Cinematic Arts, and School of Dramatic Arts. These make up a very large proportion of the undergraduate student body, and these students are accepted based on excellence in topics and fields which are not one of the topics on SAT/ACT tests. So these students likely have lower SAT/ACT scores, which would pull down both the average and the scores in the mid range.
I’m pretty sure that the SAT/ACT scores of the CS students are as high as those of students in any college which is as selective as USC.
As someone who chose USC over Northwestern and several others, I find it funny that someone would consider one school to be a “serious” academic school while the other would not be.
First of all, Northwestern’s current president - really - is a former USC administrator. If Northwestern is such a serious academic school and USC isn’t, then why would Northwestern hire as the face of its university someone who’d spent a significant portion of his career here? Don’t believe me?
https://www.northwestern.edu/president/biography/index.html
“Previously President Schapiro was president of Williams College from 2000 to 2009. Earlier he had served as a member of the Williams College faculty from 1980 to 1991 as professor of economics and assistant provost. In 1991 he went to the University of Southern California, where he served as chair of the Department of Economics until 1994 and then as dean of the College of Letters, Arts and Sciences until 2000. During his last two years as dean, he also served as the university’s vice president for planning.”
Shapiro went from USC to Williams College which is also far from an academic backwater. Cornell also hired as its recent president Beth Garrett, who was a longtime professor and administrator in USC’s law school and then provost of the university. She died FAR too young of cancer. One of Brown’s recent presidents was also a longtime USC administrator.
Secondly, as was mentioned above, many of USC’s core strengths are in the arts. Someone who is a world-class actor, dancer, or playwright isn’t necessarily going to have perfect standardized test scores, in the same way that someone who aces the SAT or ACT probably isn’t going to be the captain of the football team or end up dancing Swan Lake with the Joffrey Ballet. One thing I really appreciate about USC is their understanding that excellence manifests itself in many forms, and the narrow focus of some on grades and standardized test scores belies an artificially narrow definition of academic and professional promise that does NOT play out in the real world. Standardized test scores and class rank do NOT measure things like resiliency or interpersonal skills, both of which are slightly important in the job market today.
Thirdly, USC is a “hip” school because it offers EDUCATION FOR THE 21ST CENTURY. If you want to study things like filmmaking, interactive media, or video game design, USC’s programs are the BEST IN THE WORLD while nearly all of its other programs are at least top 20 in the country.
A school can be both “hip” and academically serious at the same time. Northwestern is a great school - I have a number of high school classmates who went there, especially for journalism - but one thing that’s lost on 18-year-olds and will affect both it and the University of Chicago, along with the University of Illinois, is the fact that the state of Illinois has been mismanaged into the ground this century, which will dramatically affect its ability to recruit faculty and cause the parents who do their homework on where to send their children to college to give a second thought to sending them off to that school.
That said, Northwestern is a great school and you would be fortunate to take a degree from that school. Same with USC. You don’t have to tear down one school to build up another - the U.S. has around 4000 colleges and universities, so this is effectively counting the number of angels on the head of a pin. Reputations also lag behind reality, which is why there’s a mix of people on here trying to figure out how to get in to USC and others are tearing it down.
I’ve never regretted choosing to go to USC and am grateful for the opportunities that I had there.
^^^ Nicely put, @USCAlum05
“My guess…USC is taking higher pay lower stat students.”
Ha. Apparently WAY “higher pay” re: current news reports.
The whole thing stings, but what people outside of a few major cities don’t fully appreciate is that there’s a whole other stratum of wealth above and beyond what you see in most of the country. The people left behind as always are the usual “work hard and play by the rules” types. A lot of us are FUMING over this right now.
Not true. Few top students are going to actually go to USC. It’s not appealing if you are a 1500 SAT coming from a good high school with descent grades. These students will go to elite Universities almost always even if USC is there safe choice. USC is a good University if you just can’t master the junior high math of a SAT. Honestly even places like BU, BC, Tufts and Northeastern just to name 4 2nd tier schools in Boston are going to attract better students. I’d hire a good student from a good high school without attending college before I’d hire your average USC grad. Now it is a big university and the top 5% of their grads are actually pretty smart. But even then they’d be in the bottom 10% compared to academically competitive Universities such as MIT, Cal Tech, U of Chicago and Wash U. They would only fair slightly better against grade inflated unchallenging Ivies and Stanford.
I just have to laugh at anyone that questions the STEM programs at USC and makes a comment like @pablolibre: "USC is a good University if you just can’t master the junior high math of a SAT. " It shows ignorance. Merely look at the namesake of the Engineering school. Anyone typing their posts on a cellphone or talking on one would not be doing so were it not for the Viterbi equation. Dozens of NASA Astronauts have studied at USC including Neil Armstrong and James Lovell. It is a top 25 Engineering School and the Engineering Grad School is top 10 with many of its specific programs ranked higher. If you visited ANY top aerospace or defense contractor you would constantly be tripping over people with a Systems Management degree from USC. And it offers something some of the others do not, A more complete social life outside of the classroom so that one can see life is not only about solving equations. My son is a math prodigy who graduated from the top high school in the state. Perfect is the only score he has gotten on any standardized or classroom test in math including college courses he took while in high school. He stumps my cousin who writes college math textbooks with his ability to solve complex problems. A classmate of his is a short drive away at CalTech and when they compare notes the math classes are equally challenging with the addition of a social life at USC. Certainly CalTech is higher ranked but a smart kid who goes to EITHER will do well. I would certainly put MIT above as well. But there are no other schools that dominate USC in STEM. They may be better in some aspects but none are looking down at USC. Just look at the acceptance rate of USC undergraduates into graduate programs and you will know USC is getting it done. The small class sizes and a faculty whose research and accomplishments can compete with any University in the world are putting out some great students that industry and academics are wanting.
@JohnGaltIII “But there are no other schools that dominate USC in STEM.”
UCB, Georgia Tech, CMU, Stanford, … crush USC.
Michigan, Texas, Washington, Purdue
to name some.
“Engineering Grad School is top 10 with many of its specific programs ranked higher… aerospace”
One top 10 - petroleum engineering. Most colleges don’t have this degree.
For aerospace USC is not T10, every school above is ranked higher. … and Texas AM, Colorado, others.
USC’s admission process consists of the admin checking to see if your family can afford to pay full tuition.
@Greymeer I did not say others were not ranked higher. I said dominate. I am not claiming that some of these schools may not be better or ranked higher. I am just saying USC is on the same playing field as most. And I am not talking about just the somewhat questionable US News rankings but also industry publications. As to aerospace I never claimed they were top 10 in aerospace. But a lot of people IN that industry value the systems management degree from USC.
I am not a math guy. But I am a great researcher. People seek me out for my particular research ability. And when my son told me his intended major I put those skills to use. I did not just google search or read Reddit where you probably got your information. I contacted REAL PEOPLE. I talked and communicated with people in academics and people in industry. All of the schools you mention are great schools but often reputation as you see in a skewed Google search or a US News report based on the distant more than recent past seldom tells the same story as what is current. People I talked to who work in graduate school admissions speak well of USC undergraduates as do people who hire in the real world. USC also has a stellar international reputation particularly in the Far East. And you certainly cannot discount an alumni network that is as strong as any in the world.
And I would love to see where you get your information about the admissions process. I will bet every dollar in my bank account, my car and my house that you have almost ZERO knowledge other than a want to show disdain. If it was just about wealth why would the families in the recent event have to pay a third party to go through an illegal back door to get in? The actress with the two “rowing” daughters and her husband are worth hundred of millions and friends with the richest man on the USC board yet they were not welcomed in through the front door. Can you explain that? Can you explain why USC gives financial aid to 2/3rds of its students if it just looking for those that can pay full tuition?
My son turned down two of the schools you mention, Ga Tech and Wash U. Not because they were not great schools with notable programs but because he loved the overall experience he felt when visiting USC. Of course, visiting Wash U on a dreary and cold January day may have cost them a few points.
Well said, @JohnGaltIII
To the contrary, @pablolibre, USC is in fact so appealing that among the projected 70K applicants this year, USC will likely again have to reject 4K+ applicants with 4.0 unweighted GPAs and test scores in the 99th percentile. And those 4K+ rejections equate to a # that is 1K+ larger than the actual projected new freshman class for the fall. So USC could choose to fill its entire incoming freshman class with nothing but those stellar applicants. Instead, they seek to create a well-rounded and diverse freshman class. Here is the actual freshman profile, if you would like to see real facts on the subject…
https://about.usc.edu/files/2018/09/USC-Freshman-Profile-2018-2019.pdf
And those 4K+ rejections of stellar applicants who wanted to attend USC will be among the 63K likely to be rejected in total. My daughters - with stellar stats themselves - chose USC over Princeton, Rice, Emory and others. Many of their peers at USC did the same… turning down schools like Stanford, Yale & Harvard. With an admit rate projected at 10% this cycle (and a corresponding 90% rejection rate), USC is a Reach for every applicant these days… and not a Safety as you imply. But congrats… you at least manged the creation & posting of one of the most humorous posts in CC history.
Addressing one’s own personal failings and disappointments by disparaging others is popular throughout the internet.
@WWard “USC now routinely rejects 4K+ applicants each cycle with 4.0 unweighted GPAs and 99th percentile test scores. That # is more than the total # admitted to Northwestern. USC could choose to fill their entire freshman class of 3000 with nothing but such stellar applicants”
Here’s the problem with this statement. They could ACCEPT another 4K applicants with perfect 4.0 GPA and 99th percentile test scores but most of these excellent applicants will have numerous offers from other colleges as highly or higher ranked than USC and are likely using USC as a back-up.
Said another way, their yield would go down drastically if they accepted an additional 4K perfect stat students as these kids will have other great college options and many will not choose USC. USC current yield is 37%, Stanford and Harvard yields are 75-80%.
Don’t get me wrong, USC is a wonderful college but let’s put some critical reasoning into the above statement.
@socaldad2002 Allow me to counter your counter respectfully. While you are correct that it is not likely that every uw 4.0/99th percentile applicant would accept, it IS likely that if if USC chose to be purely number centric they had the applicants to build a class whose numbers in GPA and test scores would have been equal to any school insofar as the 25/75 numbers.
@JohnGaltIII We will have to agree to disagree. USC would have to accept 34,000 perfect stat applicants to get a fall acceptance class of 3,400 (10% yield). Remember the highest stat kids will have lots of college options that are just as good and cheaper (e.g. UCLA, Berkeley, Ivies) driving down the USC yield.
The 2018 USC admission cycle had 64,000 applicants, do you really think over 50% of the applicants were perfect stat kids? In order to attract that many high stat applicants to increase yield they would have to throw tons of merit money at all of these kids. Not going to happen.
For a graphical depiction of the relationship between GPA and yield, see:
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary
Select “Freshman Yield Rate,” “HS GPA” and campus of choice.