<p>... say I get into UNC as an out of state applicant. OOS is really competitive, and it seems like I'd be around a LOT of people who know each other and are at a lower intellectual level. I agree that it is an excellent school, but why choose UNC wit its extreme double standard for instate vs out of state students rather than attending BC or Notre Dame or another upper-tier school where EVERYONE is smart, not just all the oos and some of the instate? Basically, if you have to be ivy material to get in oos, why not choose an ivy league school?</p>
<p>If you have to ask then I suggest you attend an Ivy League school, BC or Notre Dame. Seems like you have your mind made up anyway.</p>
<p>while i agree with you that it IS extremely difficult to get into OOS, it's still slightly below Princeton, Yale, Brown, etc. probably some of the "easier" Ivies like Cornell would accept a typical UNC OOS</p>
<p>There are probably any number of reasons, which generally boil down to "fit." If one is really into the prestige label of an Ivy, a public university may not fit the bill. Geography can also play a role: distance or whether one feels comfortable in a southern US setting. There are those who seriously question whether the Ivies actually deliver the quality of education their reputations might indicate. (See Loren Pope's recent book on the subject; he is clearly critical, but has earned the right to his opinions.) But I think supposing that UNC students may in part be at a "lower intellectual level" really does not do them justice, and may bespeak personal issues which an individual may confront at any school. If you think everyone at any school will be smart, well good luck to you. Consider Yale and the DKE house in the 1960's for example. :)</p>
<p>People want to go to UNC because of the environment.</p>
<p>If the IS vs OOS bias bothers you, I suggest applying elsewhere. Perhaps consider your own State U which will be biased towards you. UNC, like other publics, has its primary obligation to state residents, that's a given. If that bothers you the question is not, Why go? it's Why apply?</p>
<p>If you're coming into Carolina with the perspective that I am at a lower intellectual level than you because I'm from in state, then I don't want you coming here, either.</p>
<p>mdebater, given your superior “intellectual level”, I really think that you, as well as the students at UNC, would be much happier if you chose Boston College or Notre Dame (if you should, in fact, be accepted to ND).</p>
<p>Having rec'd the oos state nod from UNC I can tell you that the name of the school is not the only consideration. Being able to get in and being happy once you do seem to be different objectives. At the end of the day the biggest concern is money. </p>
<p>Here's was my approach. First, applying to top ten business schools was a primary focus. Next, comfort level. Being from Virginia it was clear that anything north of Philadelphia was not a good idea. Not being one to love city life, NY and Boston had nothing to offer.</p>
<p>IMO BC and ND don't outrank UNC. ND has as good a business program but the word is that legacy got such a huge leg up it didn't seem worth the bother. BC doesn't offer anything that can't be had instate. Going Ivy has cache, but like living in the city, being around folks that are uber agressive, and lets face it you have to be a major competitor (or really rich) to make it into the HYPS these days, doesn't have a lot of appeal.<br>
Last but not least is the money thing. Getting in is good but how to come up with the cash without big debt. Just did the UPenn iterview. It would be great to be accepted and Philly is familiar but the whole cost thing puts a kink in the plan.</p>
<p>Truth is as much as other schools appeal, getting admitted doesn't matter if you have to say no thanks or end up paying loans back for 20 years. One of the many nice things about UNC is they don't gouge oos ppl. 30k is tough but 48k is tougher.</p>
<p>Cloying, I love you. :)</p>
<p>Don't underestimate in-state students. A lot (A LOT) of them give up going to Ivys for the money and cuz UNC ROCKS. Seriously, I wouldn't go ANYWHERE else. You can't get our combo of amazing academics and killer social life in the best college town in the US anywhere else.</p>
<p>Good luck getting in OOS. Be glad they don't do an attitude check on your college apps.</p>
<p>mdebater - Is it that you don't want to go to a school where you'd be in the top 25% of the students according to their SAT scores? You may find yourself in the top 25% of students at other schools too. Or not. I haven't studied the SAT ranges of BC and ND relative to UNC, but there's a bottom half of every school's class. Look at the lower range of BC and ND's SAT ranges. I don't think they're that far off from UNC's. </p>
<p>As others have said, you'll find plenty of instate students who're also in the top 25% at UNC. Also, not to slight the recruited athletes at UNC, but some of the really, really good ones from OOS just might not have stats in the top 25%.</p>
<p>Bottom line, if you don't want to go to UNC, don't. Plenty of people do, for many of the reasons stated here already.</p>
<p>Don't be so hard on the OP guys, it's a legit question. I'm sure the IS kids are of high academic quality, but if you look even at the scores on this thread, there is a huge difference in who has been accepted IS vs OOS. I think rather than chase him away bc you are insulted that OOSers might think that, you should tell him why UNC is the preferred choice among many elite students, who could go anywhere they want.</p>
<p>UNC is, bottom line, a fabulous university. Although I'm an in-state student and thus am admittedly intellectually and academically inferior to OOS kids in countless ways, I turned down acceptances to several "more prestigious" private universities in favor of Carolina. I'm extremely happy here--we have the total package: impressive academics (a Carolina degree in most any major will make a solid resume), location, seemingly millions of extracurricular offerings, tons of school spirit and successful athletic programs, a warm and exciting social atmosphere, and AFFORDABLE COST. UNC is simply a great value in this respect.</p>
<p>However, despite all of these positive qualities, since you're looking at homogeneous, religious-oriented private schools like BC (which isn't any more academically prestigious than UNC, anyway, and which I believe is actually ranked below Carolina) and Notre Dame, you actually may not be a great fit for Carolina, with its progressive atmosphere and emphasis on diversity.</p>
<p>As a Carolina OOS graduate, I would agree with leah377 that the variety of the student body is one of the school's greatest strengths. I actually transferred to Carolina from Smith College and I found the classes as challenging at Carolina--as an upper classman I could avoid some of the larger freshman classes, so I can't speak for the early years. Not all Carolina students are intense students, but it's easy to find them and in addition to wanting to learn they are also fun. Living in the south was the best education of all!</p>
<p>Great post, leah! ^</p>
<p>debater: Have you actually been accepted to UNC? I notice that you were deferred at ND. I agree with the above post, though. I suspect you'd be happier at BC or ND (if that ND deferral turns into an acceptance). Good luck with that.</p>
<p>UNC is an "IVY" among the public universties. </p>
<p>I suggest you carefully evaluate the physical plant, the quality of academic instruction, the social scene and the opportunities a degree from UNC might provide. Make your decision on fit. I totally agree with vc08 that your question is valid, if only you had expressed it in terms that didn't insult others</p>
<p>My son was accepted OOS and invited to the honors program, but alas, no merit scholarship. His decision will be based on a combination of factors including what makes sense financially. </p>
<p>Look at the big picture and try to imagine where you'll be most comfortable, motivated, and happy. Good luck!</p>
<p>First of all, let me tell you that this is a great question and point to raise. And aside from reactionary posts, I don't think your thread is getting the responses that it deserves.</p>
<p>Second of all, BC is ranked lower than UNC, so quit acting like it's a superior school.</p>
<p>Aside from personal reasons I cannot identify, I think that OOS students come to UNC for two general reasons.</p>
<p>One is that it is much cheaper than all of the school that you named by almost $20,000 a year. Additionally many OSS candidates get some sort of merit aid because they are so well qualified, bringing the cost down even further. Second is that perhaps the many times more qualified OSS students don't want to be in an atmosphere, like U Chicago's, where they are around students that are as or more intelligent than they are. Many people, myself included, find this sort of environment smothering.</p>
<p>But regardless, the only thing separating a IS and OSS student at UNC is a few points on a standardized test, and from what I've found, in real life situations this hardly makes a rat's ass worth of difference. it means nothing, outside of college admissions, and unless you are an arrogant prick you aren't going to think about how well you did on a test and how this puts you above everyone else's intellectual plane for the rest of your life, or even for your four years in college.</p>
<p>but even for those OOS students who can get in, i wouldn't recommend this school as one that is friendly to out-of-staters. Relations are at times tense, due to the large discrepancies in the two bodies in SE status, etc.. Also the North Carolina General Assembly, BOT, and Board of Governors are dehumanizing in the way they regard OOS students. using the justification that we don't pay state taxes, even though federal funding matches state funding at UNC, they are very insistent that OOS should pay more---much more for a Carolina education. current OOS tuition is 300 percent more than IS tuition, which is also capped. all tuition increases are funded by a OSS tuition increase. some times the GA, BOT, BOG's posture makes me want to go grocery shopping in VA to return the sentiment in kind. I most definitely won't be living in this miserable state when I graduate.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the only thing separating a IS and OSS student at UNC is a few points on a standardized test,
[/quote]
That's only when you compare the AVERAGE stats. There are MANY IS students who will have higher stats than some OOS students. The assumption that so many seem to make -- that any given OOS student will be maybe just a little better qualified than any IS student -- is incorrect. </p>
<p>As for your feelings regarding the disparity in tuition between IS and OOS students, I think you'll find that sort of disparity in any state-funded school, regardless of the state. I certainly wouldn't call this policy "dehumanizing."</p>
<p>sorry, I did come off as really arrogant and condescending. i have a friend that is an oos student at unc and she's made it sound like a horrible place to be. my view of unc has obviously been skewed. i apologize for my post.</p>
<p>yes, i agree. the disparity, however, is greater at UNC than the average state school, and also the average state school relies on state funding more than UNC does, therefore making a disparity of any kind justified. but, regardless, i was talking about the policy of making OSS students completely fund tuition increases, which has happened for the past two years, as what is dehumanizing.
don't misunderstand me, some OSS students are happy here, but a A LOT of them fall through the cracks, and no one at the university seems to give a damn. whenever this is brought up OSS students just get responses like yours nceph.</p>