<p>2007Mom: You had posted in January that your son received a deferral from UNC. So, if he's heard back this soon that he's now been accepted, and he knows he will also "probably" be accepted to an Ivy-- that's great. Good luck with your decisions.</p>
<p>tyr: I very much appreciated your post. The last paragraph made me wonder if there was a Lake Wobegon University out there somewhere. ;)</p>
<p>study hall in college? </p>
<p>as for the ivy, we received a phone call and our hs counselor said that is a very good indication of getting into that particular ivy. BUT who really knows.</p>
<p>Sorry, I was texting, emailing and posting at the same time. I have a class of 600 in a huge room and we call it study hall because you could literally disappear and no one would notice. I use it to get homework done from other classes. It is an easy A and it is sort of a joke here that you take it to have your college study hall.</p>
<p>ok. after reading posts from last year and realizing that every single year these concerns come up, i feel better. tyr had this exact conversation last year. so i guess i don't understand the rude comments even more now cause this is a standing conern. </p>
<p>as for the debate on whether to go there, i read a post that said a young lady got into Rice, Cornell and Vassar but got deferred from UNC. That kind of tells you that oos admissions is so messed up. Unless you really think that all three really good schools screwed up!</p>
<p>2007mom, read your pm. I have been reading some of the older posts and realize that there is a lot of misleading, even out right lying going on. You definitely have to realize that some of the people on here are exaggerating. So you can't believe all of this and have to make the decision for yourself</p>
<p>2007mom if you have any questions or concerns I would be happy to help you.</p>
<p>Just from reading your posts I can tell that you are a caring parent and think that your child will do well anywhere she goes. It is all about how the person adjusts to the school more than how the school feels about the student. As long as you go to a college, you can make it what you want. I know because if you look at my name and revise the words, you will know where I am now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i read a post that said a young lady got into Rice, Cornell and Vassar but got deferred from UNC. That kind of tells you that oos admissions is so messed up. Unless you really think that all three really good schools screwed up!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>2007mom: Again, this is why people say OOS admissions to UNC is so tough. It's not so much that the OOS are held to a "higher standard," a view point which is somewhat slanted-- it's simply that there are ~11,000 OOS applications every year (more than in-state applications) for about 670 spots. </p>
<p>Of course, they make more offers than the number who will ultimately accept and enroll, but I <em>believe</em> the acceptance rate for OOS is about 18%. If you look at the acceptance rates for Cornell, Rice, and Vassar, they are-- on average-- higher than that.</p>
<p>I did find a USA today article that states number of applications and acceptance rates for different schools. The article is from 2006, but the data is from 2004.</p>
<p>College</a> acceptance rates: How many get in? - USATODAY.com</p>
<p>Hope you can get into the link; if not, from 2004 data, they show Rice with an acceptance rate of 22.2%; Vassar with an acceptance rate of 29.1%; and Cornell at 29.4%. (Only Cornell received more applications than the number of UNC OOS applications.) You will see that UNC-CH is listed as 36.6%, but that's overall (taking into account both the OOS and in-state apps).</p>
<p>As stated, the above data is from 2004. If anything, the number of applications has increased overall (everywhere) from this 2004 information.</p>
<p>Again, the schools aren't "screwed up" in how they make decisions; this is just a matter of huge numbers of applications for very few available spots. Consequently, they don't have to go deep into that application pile. This is what selectivity means.</p>
<p>thanks to all for the information.</p>
<p>My job or rather my child's job is now somewhat done. Our mail just came and my child just got accepted into the honors program at the in state school.</p>
<p>So now the choice is:</p>
<p>Honors at the in state school which is hard to get in to and means school would be NO COST to us (triple legacy, applied early and knew there would be an acceptance)</p>
<p>Probably accepted at match school (UNC) since a letter came and child is now has the national merit recognition but the cost will be 30,000 or more.</p>
<p>Probably accepted at an ivy and it is very expensive.</p>
<p>So i guess this national merit recognition carries a lot of weight?</p>
<p>So the final decision will not be mine. We are done except for the money! and plane trips and missing our kid.</p>
<p>My daughter and I chuckle over this family information with regard to UNC and admissions info:
me-admitted in 1974 with a 3.2 GPA, 1260 SAT, OOS and very few extra activities; D - 4.4 (w) GPA, 2170 (1460 V/M)SAT, 2 varsity sports, music awards, the whole picture in terms of activities, community service, in state, 2008. We are not even sure she will get in because she made 2 c's as a sophomore and a c in calculus this fall! </p>
<p>We all need to relax. It will work out if we follow our intuition and not a bunch of statistics. Go with what feels right. Graduate school is the time to stress over what college, not undergrad school. Grad schools are more interested in activities, senior research, publications, GPA and MCAT/LSAT/GRE scores than where you attended undergraduate school. The whole thing reminds me of when this generation of kids had parents stressing over what preschool to attend fifteen years ago.</p>
<p>I don't think you can say "probably accepted at an ivy"</p>
<p>Since my time trolling these boards is drawing short I guess I am now more willing to speak my peace than I was a few years ago, lest I offend someone.</p>
<p>I am saddened to see this thread degenerate into harsh criticism and comments that in many/most cases are coming from individuals with no personal connection to UNC other than an application that is either still in process or has been wait listed. </p>
<p>Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to continually try to prove that someone is incorrect using some statistic derived from who knows where is getting very old. As I said in another post, in any college's intro to statistics class, early on the professor will tell you that statistics and numbers can be manipulated to say whatever one wants them to say. That said, statistics cannot measure the experience, good or bad. They can correlate data associated with some poll that might be taken but will never be an adequate measure of what someplace is really like. </p>
<p>In this thread alone we have individuals discussing the merits of attending UNC who in many cases have not even set foot on the campus. Anecdotal information aside, how can any one of them have any REAL understanding of the education and undergrad experience offered them by UNC? To say that one school "is better" than another is highly subjective. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that there aren't plenty of people squandering the education being offered at elite schools including Ivies by just doing the minimum and getting by. Many elite schools have so much grade inflation that you'd practically have to never attend class to flunk out....using the old "the hardest part is getting in, staying in is easy" belief system.</p>
<p>Here is what I know after almost four years of my son's experience at UNC:</p>
<p>Because UNC is a mid-sized public university, you can make your undergrad experience whatever you want it to be. If you want larger classes and anonymity, you can have it. On the other hand if you want smaller classes and the ability to get to know and interact with faculty the opportunity is there as well, you may just have to make the effort to make it happen...the professors not only want it to happen but look forward to it. The son of a former CC poster from NJ who is now a junior, secured an internship first semester freshman year with one of the top professors on campus who has now become a mentor to him. You just have to make the effort , the opportunities are there.</p>
<p>There are many students both in-state and OOS who have turned down offers from "more elite" schools including HYPS to attend UNC, my son is one of them. In our case he turned down Yale and others to accept the Morehead. He has a large very diverse circle of friends who in his own words are brilliant and amazing. After meeting them I can concur.</p>
<p>He was one of seven in graduating class of 82 accepted to Yale and the only one to not matriculate there so he has a very good awareness through his friends of the Yale experience. He has never looked back and today honestly says he could not see himself there. In all honesty I think that his mom and I had a far harder time giving up Yale than he did, despite the fact that it had been his dream since the eighth grade. I wasn't going to be able to put the Yale sticker in my car window or wear the sweatshirt or be able to tell friends and acquaintances that "he's at Yale...."</p>
<p>Seeing him as happy as he has been for four years at UNC has made it easy for us to get over it. I guess I really must put an asterisk next to "happy" because right now he and all his friends are suffering from a high level of melancholy as their days at UNC draw to a close....with under 100 days until commencement. He told us at Christmas that it is going to VERY hard to leave Chapel Hill (aka "Chapel Thrill or "Blue Heaven") this coming from a kid who went to his Morehead finalist weekend not wanting to like UNC.</p>
<p>I guess in summary what I really want to say is please stop with the vitriol. Everyone is entitled to and is going to have an opinion but we don't have to constantly belittle or feel compelled to challenge opinions with statistical data trying to prove that school "A" is better than school "B" or more selective or even a better school.</p>
<p>For those of you fortunate enough to be offered admission to UNC, do not take it lightly. Employers as well as grad and professional schools ALL recognize what a difficult admit it is for OOS students. For those of you interested in pursuing business, UNC is one of the few places outside the Ivies that IB firms heavily recruit and annually offer placement to many UNC grads.</p>
<p>Chapel Hill is a GREAT college town. The weather is fabulous most of the year and the UNC ethic of "work hard/play hard..." is indeed a reality. If you want a great overall undergrad experience, UNC is a very hard place to top.</p>
<p>Having been down this road twice with my S and D, and now going through it again with Med School, I can honestly say...it all works out...really it does....</p>
<p>To the parents out there, just try to remember this is about the kids not us. </p>
<p>To the students out there I sincerely wish you all the very best, hope that your decisions will crystallize and become more easy as time moves on.</p>
<p>Again, my best wishes to all.....</p>
<p>2007mom,</p>
<p>Perhaps I was overly judgmental. However, from reading your posts, it appeared obvious to me that you simply were seeking to validate a decision you had already reached, as you clearly expressed a bias against UNC. Perhaps I was wrong. </p>
<p>However, I did not suggest that you not listen to and consider any negative comments. They can certainly be as valuable as positive ones, at least when based on accurate information and founded in solid reasoning. Jazzmaster seems to have thoughtfully given a lot of consideration to his situation and has decided that another school might suit him better. I dont think anyone has criticized him for that decision.</p>
<p>I dont think you will find a post anywhere where I have ever said that UNC is the best school for everyone or is necessarily better than any other school. I have on occasion questioned statements of "fact" which I believed to be erroneous, as many people (at their own peril) reply on these boards for information; while opinion's are just that, statements of "fact" should be accurate. In the post you object to I acknowledged that there are reasons why it might not be a good choice for everyone and offered some personal perspective on why that might be true. I offered my sons experience for the sole purpose addressing, albeit from the expereince of one student, the concerns you expressed about OOS students being bored as a consequence of attending school with some more average (your words, not mine) students . Others may have a different experience, but his seems to be consistent with those of his friends and with most of the posts on this and other threads. Others have had experiences that are not be as positive, which will be true at any school.</p>
<p>Considering all sides is certainly valuable. What I and others have tried to get across, apparently without success, is that while there may be legitimate reasons to make other choices, the specific concerns you have referred to on multiple occasions should not be a substantial basis for choosing not to attend UNC. I dont think I stand alone in reaching this conclusion, which is consistent with the informed opinions of most of those who have addressed the issue here and in the thread of a couple of years ago to which you apparently refer. You are certainly entitled to reach a different conclusion. </p>
<p>Good luck to your and your child. I hope that whatever choice you make is the right one for your family.</p>
<p>Nice post, eadad.</p>
<p>I would just like to respond about your statistical data comment. To provide data (real numbers) to help illuminate and correct some mis-information that has been posted here, is of value.</p>
<p>Applicants are always upset if their applications are rejected, deferred, or waitlisted-- at any school. So, if people can better understand how difficult an OOS UNC admission really is, in comparison to many top private schools (including Ivy's), with real numbers-- not just anecdotes-- this is of value and offers some clarity. </p>
<p>None of the statistical data I posted here (either from UNC's data with regard to SAT breakdown, or data from universities w/regard to their acceptance rates), is manipulated data.</p>
<p>That said, I agree with you that statistics can't really measure one's experience.</p>
<p>I personally feel that choice of school is very individual and should be all about fit (financially and otherwise). I'm actually all for a gap year (or two) between high school and college. I'm even of the opinion that college isn't for everyone. :)</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>janieblue</p>
<p>I certainly wasn't questioning the validity or relevance of your data and if you go back through CC archives you will see many posts from me that fully support (with data) just how difficult an OOS admit is. I was commenting more on the back and forth that was going on earlier trying to prove/disprove comments about "this school versus that school." I was also trying hard to return the tone of this thread to be what I have always perceived the purpose of CC to be;that of a helpful, caring and interested group trying to share the best information and advice that they can.</p>
<p>If anyone cares to go back through UNC archives in CC they will find many posts from students who were puzzled and dismayed because they had been accepted to what they and others believed to be "more elite' schools like Duke, UVA, Penn, Columbia etc and had been either wait listed or rejected at UNC. There is little to dispute that in the overall crazy world of admissions UNC is right up there in the "tough admission ticket" list. Any good/knowledgeable college counselor will echo that as well.</p>
<p>Lastly, as I also said, many of the negative comments (not yours) were coming from people who have never set foot on the campus, are feeling the pressure that a long-shot admit will bring and/or have already been wait listed and feel compelled to denigrate the school. It is sad to see vitriol being tossed about based on hurt feelings rather than with some real knowledge of what college life, the education offered and the whole undergrad experience that UNC offers is really all about.</p>
<p>For any parents out there with questions or concerns you would rather not post, please feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Again.....my best wishes to all for the outcome you desire.</p>
<p>eadad et al,</p>
<p>I so enjoyed your post, eadad, that I sent it to my Freshman D. It reflects everything I have felt about UNC since she settled in about a month after she arrived. It was really important to me that she be happy her first time away from home, which is really far for her and for me. Right now, she and I are making a conscious effort to wean me from being a helicopter parent (which I suspect composes the profile of most parents on this site...we can discuss this later... according to my D, I'm probably having a setback right now!) She actually sent me an email saying something like "Mom, let's try something new. Try to go three days without going into the UNC site or that parent thing you go into... just 3 days." I stayed away for 2 months after that email... Anyway, the reason I can let go now is that I am absolutely certain my D is safe, happy, and academically challenged. What she makes of her college experience is up to her now. I'm done. In fact, when eadad's senior graduates and mine is done with her freshman year, I doubt I'll be around here much at CC. As much as the advice has been invaluable to me--it really has-- it's time my D learned her way around the world without me. I'll be home when she needs me. </p>
<p>So, for those currently applying (what a year that was!) ... I hope this gives you a clear idea of how good UNC has been for me and for her. She would probably have done well anywhere, but for those who are applying, rest assured that if you choose UNC, you'll be fine if you like to "study hard so you can party hard"... that's part of college, too. Good luck with your admissions!</p>
<p>of course there are more IS students who score high. there are more IS period. the only comparison that can be made is one with %'s.</p>
<p>JohnC613,</p>
<p>Averages and percentages can be useful tools. An OOS applicant to UNC would certainly be well advised to evaluate his or her chances differently than an IS student student. The applicant pool is bigger than for IS and the number of places available is smaller, so admissions for OOS are by definition more competitive. However, as has been pointed out numerous times, just because OOS admissions are more competitive does not mean that there are not plenty of IS students who are just as qualified. Once enrolled everyone, both IS and OOS, is part of one student body and the percentages and averages for IS and OSS lose any real significance. Once admitted, the real question should relate to the quality and composition of the student body as a whole, without reference to any IS/OOS issue.</p>
<p>tyr</p>
<p>thank you....very well said....</p>
<p>tyr, thanks for the post. do you think, once you're at UNC, it is apparent who is OOS and who is IS, or is everyone hopefully nicely mixed</p>
<p>
[quote]
Once admitted, the real question should relate to the quality and composition of the student body as a whole, without reference to any IS/OOS issue.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Excellent point. I do get the sense here that some people might think that UNC-CH offers entirely separate educational and academic experiences/classes specifically designed solely for OOS students. That's just not how universities, including UNC-CH, work. </p>
<p>I do hope that no matter where students choose to go, they don't end up talking about their SAT scores with their peers. That sort of behavior is really off-putting and makes most people cringe with embarrassment (for you-- not for them).</p>
<p>John: Just saw your question to tyr. I was actually going to add to my post here, before I saw your question, that students would be hard-pressed to know in what part of the country (or world) a student was born-- unless you make a point to ask. It's not as though OOS or in-state wear identifying uniforms or anything. Just like life, there will be all kinds of students you will meet at UNC, from many and varied backgrounds, who have had different life experiences-- which is part of what makes life interesting (to my mind).</p>