Why wouldn't I want to be admitted to honors?

Applying to College
1

<p>In the stream of info from colleges we are getting some invitations to honors programs. I guess this is good news...its due to grades and socres, right? The invites describe all the perks that the honors program can offer. </p>

<p>So I am looking go CC for the other side of the story. Why wouldn't I want an honors admission ? Whats the downside to this ? </p>

<p>So far the invites are optional. The scholarships are not based on honors. </p>

<p>Thoughts please! Should I say yes to honors ?</p>

2

<p>Honors programs often attract self-motivated people, people who want to learn more simply for the sake of learning. After all, honors programs (typically) involve a lot of work (senior thesis, research projects, extra essays) for little physical payoff (maybe an addition on your diploma, or early registration on some classes). Thus, many people won’t do honors because it’s seen as extra work with little to no benefit. Of course, that extra work can have indirect benefits (you develop your skills better, you’re associated with a smarter, motivated group of people, etc.). However, if you’re just looking to get through school and not stack on added stress and work, these indirect benefits might not be worth it (as the time you gain from not being in honors can be spent elsewhere), and a non-honors route would be ideal.</p>

3

<p>This may sound a bit off but could you get admitted to the honors program and just not pursue an honors degree ? Would they throw you out of honors at some time ?</p>

<p>Trying to leave options open.</p>

4

<p>^^^ Depends on the school. Some schools it’s very easy to just not do the senior thesis. In other schools the Honors core may be different from non-Honors and you may have to pick up some classes to move out of Honors. If scholarship money is not tied to Honors that makes it easier.</p>

<p>D is in a Honors program and it is absolutely the right thing for her. Her Honors program offers extra (free) activities such as museum trips and plays. Two of her core courses are taught in small (no more than 15 student) seminars. She’s very driven and motivated and loves being around other similar students. However, several students have already dropped Honors, as the writing and particularly the reading requirements are much higher than in non-Honors, and it’s too much for some students, especially in the sciences.</p>

5

<p>Sometimes honors students get perks, like registration priority/better classes/exclusive activities (especially at large state universities, where the honors school is a bit like a LAC in the middle of the university). On the other hand, if you don’t get those things, honors generally means more opportunities to do work. If that’s what you like, go for it! From what I’ve heard, though, honors in college usually means much less to grad schools than honors in HS meant to colleges.</p>

6

<p>My D is in an honors program at a big state school. The pluses far outweigh the minuses, but there are a few minor things. </p>

<p>Since she has has advisers in both honors college and her majors, she needs to make appts to see all before she registers, during semesters when advising is mandatory. They give good advice, but it’s another thing to remember and find time for.</p>

<p>The program has a 2 quarter required sequence of a signature humanities honors class. It’s a great class and she’s learning much, but it’s a LOT of work and she’s more a math type. If she weren’t in honors, she wouldn’t need to take this type of class because of AP credit. She’s a dual degree, so definitely wouldn’t be doing it just for fun exploration. </p>

<p>One of her majors is music and the honors dorm has no practice rooms and is far from music bldg, so she bikes back and forth to music bldg several times daily. The fine arts kids have dorms of their own right near music. She could have asked to live there even though in honors program, but the honors dorms are new with large suite-style rooms. She has a private room with private bath. And they have all sorts of amenities like private gym, computer room, better food in dining hall, nicer lounge, etc. The fine arts dorms have practice rooms, but are quite old, all doubles, and have community baths off halls.</p>

<p>We also looked at UMN-Twin Cities, and there the honors dorm is quite close to fine arts, but for her other major and gen eds it would have been a long walk across the bridge in January.</p>

<p>Her honors program has an annual fee of $1000 that helps defray all the extra services the kids get. Her scholarship pays the fee, but I don’t think every student in the program has a scholarship that covers it. The honors dorm and its meal plan is more expensive than other dorms. But also much nicer than other dorms and food incredible. </p>

<p>She has to maintain a 3.25 GPA to graduate with honors, but one of her scholarships has that as minimum also. That’s not much of a requirement, actually. I think they don’t kick you out of the program if you drop below that, but you don’t get to graduate with the kids in honors college or get honors tag on diploma.</p>

<p>At her school the honors kids are required to stay in dorms for 2 years. I don’t think that is common, but something to keep in mind to check. We don’t consider it a minus, but some kids might want to get out of dorms after first year to save money or for other reasons. One can petition to get out of requirement for financial reasons or if married or local.</p>

<p>You have to accumulate 36 credit hours in honors. Typically you run out of honors classes and have to make contracts with profs to do something extra in their class for a few classes. You also have to write and defend a thesis. These are not negatives exactly. Many students like to do these things. But others might find it a bit onerous, depending on course load, if they work job outside school, double major, etc.</p>

<p>You didn’t ask about the benefits of being in honors, so I guess you know those already. But they do vary from school to school. At D’s school honors has priority scheduling before everyone else, but some schools don’t offer any priority to honors kids, or a more limited form of it. You need to balance the benefits of a particular program against the requirements and time and effort needed to meet them.</p>

7

<p>It really depends on the program. In my university, better housing is one of the big perks, but there are also smaller sections of courses for honors and extra museum/play trips that I am usually too busy to go to. The requirements are to maintain a 3.5 GPA, and to graduate with honors you have to complete 6 honors courses, including a 1 credit course freshman year and a seminar. (I got to take the History of Espionage seminar - awesome class.) In most cases, the honors sections of the courses are not harder, just smaller. You can also get “Honors in the Discipline” by taking 8 credits of Honors Project coursework to complete an Honors Thesis. In my program, if you are given the chance to be in Honors, there is really no reason NOT to. At worst, you don’t keep up with the requirements, you drop out of the program, and no one cares.</p>

<p>I would look into the specifics of each program. A bonus you are going to get from any of them, though, is the chance to interact and collaborate with other top notch students.</p>

8

<p>It’s really no big deal at my university. Sure, everyone who’s in it thinks they’re quite the intellectual, but like nano said, the only thing different is that the classes are usually smaller. In fact, Honors College classes have been known to be EASIER. Since everyone’s “already so bright,” (<em>cough</em> you only need a 25 on the ACT and a 3.5 HS GPA <em>cough</em> and you can apply and get in with lower stats <em>cough</em>), the profs usually just make them write a paper or two. Sometimes a group project. </p>

<p>Here, the Honors kids have a couple floors reserved in one building. It’s really no big deal; I’m in one of the the different towers and it’s basically the same thing. They do get priority registration, but it’s because they need to get into their special classes. I think they have to take 4, an Honors Seminar, and then a thesis. But to be honest, my majors are small enough and I’m ahead credit-wise that I never have an issue getting into my classes. </p>

<p>So, not to sound like a flame, but that’s what I think of at least my school’s honors program. I’m sure there are others that are great and really challenge their students, but as far as I’m concerned, mine’s little more than a watered-down minor. </p>

<p>I almost did it from the get-go and am actually considering jumping on board because it’s so easy, but in the end, I don’t think it’ll matter if I do or not. The type of people suitable for honors are the type that will be successful anyway, and it’s all about YOU and how YOU can better reach your goals. If you view an Honors College as more of an annoying obstacle rather than a helpful shortcut, then you may want to just continue on your own path.</p>

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<p>Honors programs benefit you a lot if you plan on going to grad schools, because it’s a “signal” to the grad school that, from the get go, you’re a top student at that school. It may actually be easier (many honors students actualy get better grades in their honors classes, in part because they’re more stimulating and the students there tend to be more motivated) but it still “looks better” so for external purposes it matters. There are all the perks, and especially the support for fellowships, research, undergrad conferences, etc. </p>

<p>Really, the only reasons I can think of that a bright person wouldn’t want to be part of the Honors College when they’ve been invited to be in it, are that either they’re not aware of its value and perks, or they’re not interested in being challenged and just want the easy way out. Another reason would be if the Honors College is a Great books program and you’re not a Great Books person. A last reason would be if the Honors College isn’t well-organized - but even then, especially if your university isn’t well-known, the honors program would help, especially with grad schools (for employers, internships would be more important). Of course, if you were admitted to the Honors College, but didn’t accept, no one will know.</p>

10

<p>The biggest advantage my D has experienced is registering for classes. She got to register for 2nd semester classes with the athletes and before even the sophmores, juniors and seniors. She registered in early October, regular freshman registration was in mid November. A lot of those kids were sweating getting some classes.</p>

11

<p>I don’t think graduate schools (or employers) care about an Honors designation on the degree per se. I think the GPA is far more important. But the Honors College at my D’s school and a lot of others do facilitate opportunities for some of the additional things that graduate schools do care about. I think being an honors student helped her more easily get accepted to do research in a professor’s lab next semester even when she hasn’t even yet completed one semester with grades to show. That in turn may lead to a publication which is definitely a plus for grad schools. And a required substantial senior thesis is more evidence of the ability to do scholarly research and write about it. Not to mention the advantages of the working relationship that would likely develop with the thesis advisor, especially when it comes time to ask for recommendations (either written or personally conveyed between faculty members). All these things are available outside the Honors College for students motivated to go after them but it’s the norm for the Honors College students.</p>

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<p>From the mail and email we’re getting for our HS junior it looks like quite a number of colleges are using their Honors programs to sell themselves to students who might otherwise apply elsewhere. An example is Penn State which wasn’t really on our radar but looked attractive when they sent us an email about Schreyer Honors College–we didn’t really think it was worth paying OOS there until reading the program description which included its “small school” feel and merit aid for accepted students.</p>

<p>From the posts on this thread, though, and other posts I’ve seen here on CC, there’s a big range. Would people care to name honors programs that they know are worthwhile, or warn us about others that don’t really make a difference? If you don’t want to name them publicly then feel free to pm me.</p>

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<p>grad programs do care about this. We look for this designation on transcripts because most honors programs require a more rigorous curriculum. It matters.
employers? I can’t speak from them, but I don’t see how this is not a plus in their eyes.</p>

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<p>I can absolutely confirm what lucthej said ^: grad programs look for this, especially if the university is known as a “directional” or if its programs aren’t too stringent/intensive academically. In certain cases, it’s basically a requirement, especially for fellowships/TAships. It’s another validation in addition to what STEMFam said (thesis, relationship with adviser, etc).</p>

15

<p>SHC is one example of an HC with a great reputation with grad schools and employers.
There are many substantial advantages of being in the SHC (too significant to be labeled as just perks) that are too extensive to be written into websites and brochures. You can get a better idea by attending a SHC visitation day/program (twice a year I believe).
Competition is fierce. Most successful applicants in the more competitive colleges (ENG, ECoS) are “middle Ivy” quality. The SAT range that is published underestimates the quality of these students. Our high school does very well with the number of SHC students, and students who were not selected for the SHC often end up going to the likes of UVa, Cornell, USC, Dartmouth, Norte Dame etc.
disclaimer: @PSU, but they are ranked in the top HC in the country so I’m not completely biased</p>

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<p>Sorry but what is SHC?</p>

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<p>^Schreyer Honors College at Penn State University</p>

<p>Thanks luvthej. Any other comments on other programs? I found this blog [Public</a> University Honors | The site for public university honors colleges and programs](<a href=“http://publicuniversityhonors.com/]Public”>http://publicuniversityhonors.com/) which has a list with 75 Honors colleges [Now</a> We?ll Be Tracking 75 Honors Programs?and Here They Are! | Public University Honors](<a href=“http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2013/10/05/now-well-be-tracking-75-honors-programs-and-here-they-are/]Now”>http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2013/10/05/now-well-be-tracking-75-honors-programs-and-here-they-are/)</p>