Wildcats

[k_amp_s]

<p>
[quote]
Using the numbers you mention, the D is 6 or 7 in B10. So it's very average. The Offense is also pretty average (Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, Wisconsin, and Purdue have loads more weapons. Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota all might be better).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes - 6 or 7th in the B10 is average, but that is still WAY better than the 2005 Sun Bowl which had just about the WORST defense in IA ball (ranked at just about the bottom of all 118 1A teams).</p>

<p>Last year, NU’s D finished 85th out of 118 teams. While hardly a good D, you have to remember that this is what a very young group of players, esp. on the D-line (where players don’t come into their prime until their upperclassmen years). </p>

<p>The D-line will be the dominant group in this year’s D and that will only help the linebacking corp. and secondary (The D should finish in the 60s range this year.)</p>

<p>As for the O – I don’t see how this year’s O will be that different from the O in 2004 or 2005. Bacher, while not quite the runner that Basanez was, is a better down the field passer.
Sutton is older and wiser and supposedly in the best shape of his collegiate career. And the WR corp., while not having a top notch threat (Brewer would have been one if he hadn’t gotten injured), is just as deep as it has been during the years when Basanez was at the helm.</p>

<p>Sorry, but Indiana, Iowa and Minny do NOT have better O’s and the ‘Cats don’t play PSU or Wisconsin this year.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The team is pretty average by B10 standards. Add in the negatives of being relatively inexperienced and not having a winning culture...so they'll drop a game or two that is late and close.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uhh, how is the team “inexperienced”? It’s returning 18 starters from last year’s team and despite not having a “winning culture” – the ‘Cats went 5-3 in the B10 for 3 consecutive yrs prior to last season.</p>

<p>I certainly am not saying that this year’s team is going to challenge for the B10 title, but as long as the key components remain healthy, this team will be a middle-tier B10 team and going to a bowl game.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Odds have us going 3-1 non-conference (we'll be favorites in all 4, but perfection is a though thing to ask for. Every year we drop a game we should've won...see UNH in '06) and 3-5, maybe 4-4 in conference. We'll get 6 or 7 wins and a trip to the Music City Bowl or its likeness.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I was really worried about the UNH game last yr since they had an experienced QB, O-line and WR corps. and our O was in complete shambles due to the lack of a passing attack.</p>

<p>Out of all of the OOC games, I’m most worried about Duke - but I think this year will be the year that the ‘Cats finally break thru with an unbeaten OOC record.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And not just did I see the Ohio State game, I was there all game despite freezing temperatures and a fight in the student section after some rowdy OSU fans starting flying the Ohio flag in front of NU fans. Ohio State played like absolute crap and were clearly looking forward to its showdown with Michigan the next week. Smith, Pittman, Ginn, and Gonzales all played poorly.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Huh? How did dOSU “play like absolute crap” when they rang up 54 points on the ‘Cats?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Indiana most definitely has a better offense than Northwestern.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL!! Which is why the ‘Cats gained 4.8 yds per play against your boys last year and IU – a measly 2.5 yards per play.</p>

<p>IU’s O is pretty much limited to Lewis throwing to Hardy.</p>

<p>Shut down Hardy and you pretty much shut down IU’s O.</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>First off, Northwestern didn't even play Indiana last year. Secondly, Northwestern had the 106th offense in the country last year, Indiana ranked 63rd. Not to mention Northwestern only returns 5 starters from their offense last year, compared to Indiana's 9.</p>

<p><a href="http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2007&div=4&rpt=IA_teamscoroff&site=org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2007&div=4&rpt=IA_teamscoroff&site=org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

[CerebralAssassin]

<p>Wolves bring up a valid point...though I'm not sure why there is such Hoosier Pride.</p>

<p>And I still don't think we're disagreeing. I said before that Nu will likely get 6 or 7 wins and go to a bowl game. I think you're saying the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that there are reasons why we'll win 6 or 7 and reasons why we'll lose 5 or 6.</p>

<p>And if you watch the game, there were dropped passes, missed assignments, and the 2nd half is where the game got out of hand. NU committed 3 turnovers in the first quarter that directly led to 21 points and 5 turnovers in the whole game. Ginn, Hartline, and Gonzales combined for 7 catches for 115 yards. I don't know if you were there, but go back and have a look. We didn't lose to the team that beat UMich. We lost to the team that got beat by UF.</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>
[quote]
I'm not sure why there is such Hoosier Pride.

[/quote]

I work for the Indiana Football team.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>NU up 17-0 at halftime!</p>

<p>Michigan is having lots of trouble with Appalach St even without any TO!!</p>

[CerebralAssassin]

<p>I was stuck listening to the game on WGN radio via the internet, but those Cats sounded dominant. The defense was a bit shaky in the first half, but absolutely shut down NE in the 2nd half. A 27-0 win with a great spread offense w Bacher distributing the ball to everyone (note: he didn't make many downfield passes. It was a short and medium passing game..which is fine by me, but also shows where Bacher's strengths lie) and Sutton being Sutton.</p>

<p>Before we start giving them the Big 10 title, we played Northeastern. NE is a good D2 team, but next week against Nevada will be a good test.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>
[quote]
First off, Northwestern didn't even play Indiana last year. Secondly, Northwestern had the 106th offense in the country last year, Indiana ranked 63rd. Not to mention Northwestern only returns 5 starters from their offense last year, compared to Indiana's 9.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wolves - </p>

<p>Uhh, (1) I'm well aware that NU and IU didn't play last year (which is why one has to look at common opponents in evaluating the O's) and (2) (did you even read what I had written previously or do you simply have trouble comprehending it?) NU’s QB Bacher didn’t start a game until the 8th week of the season due to an injury (the O before that was pathetic) and the O with Bacher at the helm was drastically different from that with two diff. frosh QBs at the helm for the first 7 games - thus, the final yearly O rankings don’t take this into account and thus, isn’t really useful and is actually quite misleading.</p>

<p>The more accurate way to gauge these O’s is to see how they fared against mutual opponents with good defenses (with Bacher at the helm for the ‘Cats).</p>

<p>I already gave you the stats for each school’s game against Michigan – let’s see how both team’s O’s fared against dOSU’s D.</p>

<p>IU gained a paltry 165 yds.against dOSU - averaging *2.6 * yds per play.</p>

<p>Otoh, NU gained 297 yds against dOSU’s D – averaging 5 yds per play (TO’s killed NU).</p>

<p>NU’s O, with Bacher at the helm, was able to move the ball against both UoM and dOSU, IU’s O (with Lewis and Hardy), otoh, was only able to gain about HALF as many yds as NU’s O gained against the two best teams in the conf. last year.</p>

<p>You can't always accurately analyze a team just by relying on some yearly stat compilation.</p>

<p>And oh, IU just managed to squeak by with a victory over the Illini 34-32; NU, otoh, beat their downstate rival 27-16.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Wolves bring up a valid point...though I'm not sure why there is such Hoosier Pride.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>CA - </p>

<p>Wolves’ point is only valid if we were talking about a pre-Bacher O.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And I still don't think we're disagreeing. I said before that Nu will likely get 6 or 7 wins and go to a bowl game. I think you're saying the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that there are reasons why we'll win 6 or 7 and reasons why we'll lose 5 or 6.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Overall, we’re close, but I’d say that 7-8 wins is more likely (barring any significant injuries).</p>

<p>However, a team doesn’t win 7-8 games if the D-line only has 1 player of any major talent as you had stated.</p>

<p>While the D-line is probably a year away from its peak, many observers, including a couple of my buddies, who have played for the ‘Cats and watched them practice during camp, have told me that they are 8-man deep.</p>

<p>Another former player, one who was a core member of the ’95 Rose Bowl team, has high praise for the D-line and also thinks that the secondary is going to be the best in a decade.</p>

<p>Maybe it’s just semantics, but an "average" team with a "mediocre" defense does not win 7-8 games. The ‘Cats should be a good team this year. </p>

<p>
[quote]
And if you watch the game, there were dropped passes, missed assignments, and the 2nd half is where the game got out of hand. NU committed 3 turnovers in the first quarter that directly led to 21 points and 5 turnovers in the whole game. Ginn, Hartline, and Gonzales combined for 7 catches for 115 yards. I don't know if you were there, but go back and have a look. We didn't lose to the team that beat UMich. We lost to the team that got beat by UF.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uhh, I’m not saying that there weren’t mistakes in the game, but those things happen when facing dOSU’s D.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, the ‘Cats were able to move the ball against both dOSU and UoM’s defenses and the players are more experienced this year and should be able to cut down on TO’s/mistakes (anyway, I don’t think anyone is expecting the ‘Cats to beat either UoM or dOSU this year - well, maybe UoM this year).</p>

[CerebralAssassin]

<p>interesting factoid: NW (damn i hate that acronym) got the shutout w/o a single turnover or sack.
It's only one game so I won't get too high or too low, but a D-Line as highly praised as this one should be able to get past the Northeastern O-Line and sack the QB at least once. The good news is that in the post-game nearly all the defensive players and coaches mentioned it, so they'll work on a more dominating pass rush for Nevada.</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>You're comparing statistics against a team in which both of us suffered monumental defeats, where one team was on the road and the other was at home, and using that to justify your argument?!?!</p>

<p>By the way, where did you say that you were referring to OSU?

[quote]
LOL!! Which is why the ‘Cats gained 4.8 yds per play against your boys last year and IU – a measly 2.5 yards per play.

[/quote]

Oh man... it's not worth it... it really isn't.</p>

<p>By the way, our offense put up 55 today. Your offense had 27, less than half.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And oh, IU just managed to squeak by with a victory over the Illini 34-32; NU, otoh, beat their downstate rival 27-16.

[/quote]

We went TO CHAMPAIGN and won, after they were coming off a big victory in East Lansing and had momentum. Northwestern won on their home field.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>
[quote]
You're comparing statistics against a team in which both of us suffered monumental defeats, where one team was on the road and the other was at home, and using that to justify your argument?!?!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uhh, NU played dOSU at home and IU played played UM at home – so it all balances out.</p>

<p>NU was able to move the ball against dOSU and UM (whether the game was at home or away), IU, otoh, could not.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Oh man... it's not worth it... it really isn't. </p>

<p>By the way, our offense put up 55 today. Your offense had 27, less than half.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uhh, different opponents – and our coaching staff only played a “vanilla” O (no need to show the real stuff ‘til later).</p>

<p>Plus, even with our 2nd string we could have added another 10-14 points, but our coach decided to forego the points.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We went TO CHAMPAIGN and won, after they were coming off a big victory in East Lansing and had momentum. Northwestern won on their home field.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You do realize that home field advantage is generally considered to be worth 3 points – and it’s not like you guys had to fly 4+ hours to play on the West Coast – you hopped on a bus for a couple of hours and played in front of a half-empty UI stadium (sheeze – get some perspective here, not to mention a little more in depth knowledge of college FB).</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>So you went from comparing a game that didn't exist in IU v. NU, to IU v. OSU and OSU v. NU, to IU v. UM to OSU v. UM. ROFLMAO.</p>

<p>Lets see, home field is 3 points. That means take 3 points off of NU's victory because they had home field (24-16) and add 3 points to IU's victory because it was on someone else's home field (37-32) and you've got a difference of 3 points. Add in the fact that UI was coming off the biggest victory in about 5 years to the IU game and we still won, whereas they were coming off 6 straight losses and their season was over against NU (just a SLIGHT difference in motivation), and you get a different type of team that they were facing.</p>

<p>Why not bring up the fact that you LOST to Michigan State at home with Bacher? Why don't you look up the box score of our game against MSU? Keep in mind that our backups were in during the 4th quarter. By the way, we got them after you did, after they had motivation thinking they can still make a bowl game.</p>

<p>You know, just stick to academics. Northwestern is much better at that.</p>

[wintersilk]

<p>Northwestern is definitely MUCH better at academics than MSU. Good point A2Wolves6. </p>

<p>LOL.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>
[quote]
So you went from comparing a game that didn't exist in IU v. NU, to IU v. OSU and OSU v. NU, to IU v. UM to OSU v. UM. ROFLMAO.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LMAO!!</p>

<p>Uhh, when did I ever compare IU and NU in a game? (Work on your reading comprehension first – and then maybe you can proceed with your knowledge/understanding of college FB).</p>

<p>Since the teams didn’t play each other last year, the best way to evaluate their respective O’s is to see how they each fared against the toughest D’s in the B10 (rather than your simplistic and superficial reliance on final 2006 stats – which doesn’t take into account change in personnel, injuries, schedules, etc. – btw, last year, NU also had to face PSU’s tough D – which IU didn’t). (Really, this concept isn’t that difficult).</p>

<p>And in games against dOSU and UM, the NU O was able to move the ball for about twice as many yds per play as the IU O.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Lets see, home field is 3 points. That means take 3 points off of NU's victory because they had home field (24-16) and add 3 points to IU's victory because it was on someone else's home field (37-32) and you've got a difference of 3 points. Add in the fact that UI was coming off the biggest victory in about 5 years to the IU game and we still won, whereas they were coming off 6 straight losses and their season was over against NU (just a SLIGHT difference in motivation), and you get a different type of team that they were facing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uhh, that’s one game and nonetheless, NU’s O still fared better than IU’s O (not really a strong argument supporting the claim that IU’s O is better than NU’s).</p>

<p>Add this game to how the 2 respective O’s fared against UM’s and dOSU’s D – and the case for NU having the better O becomes even stronger.</p>

<p>As for the NU/UI game, both teams are always up for the game (even when one or both teams stink) – and UI’s young D, as the season progressed, got better and better with experience (And since when does a victory against MSU constitute a “big victory”? And you are WAY OFF, like you usually are, on the “biggest victory in 5 yrs” claim – UI beat UW and PU in 2002 and beat Rutgers in 2005).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why not bring up the fact that you LOST to Michigan State at home with **Bacher[/b[? Why don't you look up the box score of our game against MSU? Keep in mind that our backups were in during the 4th quarter. By the way, we got them after you did, after they had motivation thinking they can still make a bowl game.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you really this daft? We are talking about the O’s here, not the D’s or coaching blunders (such as Fitz inexplicably opting to go “conservative” in the 2nd half).</p>

<p>NU’s O, despite it being Bacher’s 1st start in a college game, nonetheless, managed to hang 38 points on MSU.</p>

<p>I would raise the fact that IU LOST to a mediocre UCONN last year (only putting up 7 points) – but it’s not nearly as compelling evidence as the UM, dOSU and UI games (since both NU and IU played those conf. foes).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Northwestern is definitely MUCH better at academics than MSU. Good point A2Wolves6.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is probably the only good point wolves has made. LOL!</p>

<p>And this is coming from a guy who called another poster an “idiot” for predicting an ASU win (wolves, btw, predicted a Wolverine blowout of “at least 3 TDs”).</p>

<p>It appears wolves knows as much about (formerly) Div 1-AA college FB as he does Div 1-A FB (much less B10 FB).</p>

<p>Btw, talking intelligently about college FB basically requires the same skill-sets as any academic endeavor (something it seems you are sorely LACKING).</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>
[quote]
Uhh, when did I ever compare IU and NU in a game? (Work on your reading comprehension first – and then maybe you can proceed with your knowledge/understanding of college FB).

[/quote]

k&s, I've already quoted you twice on this issue. I suggest you re-read and work on your comprehension.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since the teams didn’t play each other last year, the best way to evaluate their respective O’s is to see how they each fared against the toughest D’s in the B10

[/quote]

You're entitled to your opinion. It's wrong, but it's your opinion. If you truly believe that the best way to evaluate two teams is when both are completely over matched, and that whoever lost by the least/was able to be more productive in junk time down my numerous scores is the better offense, then that's your opinion. You can look at your one game in that sample, I'll take a look at the 12 over the course of the season, the correct way to look at it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Uhh, that’s one game and nonetheless, NU’s O still fared better than IU’s O (not really a strong argument supporting the claim that IU’s O is better than NU’s).

[/quote]

Is your entire argument about NU's offense being better than IU's offense not being based on one game? LMAO, "Uhh" was probably a better answer.</p>

<p>By the way, you were the one to bring the topic of 'who beat who by how much' up when you spoke initially about IU only winning in Champaign by 2, trying to convince another poster that this made NU's victory at home by 9 evidence that NU was a better team than IU. Again, reading comprehension, look at what you said. It's not that difficult. Did you not get into Northwestern or are you just posing as an NU student here?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I would raise the fact that IU LOST to a mediocre UCONN last year (only putting up 7 points) – but it’s not nearly as compelling evidence as the UM, dOSU and UI games (since both NU and IU played those conf. foes).

[/quote]

And I would come back and say that it is typical for a below average football fan to use the UConn and SIU games as evidence against IU. Now an above average football fan would note that James Hardy was suspended for that game, Terry Hoeppner (the coach) was in the hospital for those games, and IU hadn't settled on a QB for those games, rotating Powers and Lewis during the UConn games. For one to assume that that game is representative of the talent on the IU team is about as ridiculous as stating that how you do against a top defense where you have no chance is a good way of measuring how good an offense is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And this is coming from a guy who called another poster an “idiot” for predicting an ASU win (wolves, btw, predicted a Wolverine blowout of “at least 3 TDs”).

[/quote]

Yes, I got the ASU game wrong. As did 99% of the analysts in the country. Where did you talk about how ASU was going to win? Where was your prediction? What about the oddsmakers putting the line at Michigan by 34, a much larger spread than which I said Michigan would win by?</p>

[CerebralAssassin]

<p>Is there a peaceful way to end this? I'm a huge sports fan and love to discuss it, but this is getting personal. You are both talking in circles and advancing your own arguments while pretending to be responding to each other. I'll keep my thoughts on who is "right' to myself, but this thread has gone from a place to talk about an attractive feature of NU (ivy league education, B10 athletics) to two people arguing whose ____ is bigger.
After IU plays NU, you can both go at it. Until then, disarm your weapons.t
App St. certainly was a good test against UMich since App St was a 2-time defending nat'l champ, ran a spread offense, which UM notoriously can't defend, and UMich had a very suspect defense. Do I think anyone had enough evidence or logic to suggest an upset? No. Do I think that if they replay that game 10 times that UM wins 9 times? Yes. Do I think that upsets, pageantry, and unbreakable bonds between students, alumni, and teams make college football the best sport ever created? Absolutely. Hopefully we can at least agree on that.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>
[quote]
You are both talking in circles and advancing your own arguments while pretending to be responding to each other.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Comparing football teams is fun but almost always a bad science. That's why people can argue all day because in reality, nothing can be conclusive when it involves peer teams. Not to mention you only have 12 or 13 games in a season--just not enough data.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>
[quote]
k&s, I've already quoted you twice on this issue. I suggest you re-read and work on your comprehension.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, you never did quote me (you just referred to my statement).</p>

<p>And if you actually had quoted me…</p>

<p>
[quote]
Which is why the ‘Cats gained 4.8 yds per play against your boys last year and IU – a measly 2.5 yards per play.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>maybe you would have realized that taking this statement to mean that the ‘Cats played the Hoosiers last year doesn’t make any sense (considering that they didn’t play each other).</p>

<p>By “your boys”, I meant the Wolverines (sorry if I mistook your handle to be an indication of your college sports allegiance) – and this should have been clear when I stated in a successive post that “I already gave you the stats for each school’s game against Michigan” and when I repeated that UI’s O gained only half the yds per play that NU’s O did against both UM and dOSU.</p>

<p>Care to revise your reading comprehension claim?</p>

<p>
[quote]
You're entitled to your opinion. It's wrong, but it's your opinion. If you truly believe that the best way to evaluate two teams is when both are completely over matched, and that whoever lost by the least/was able to be more productive in junk time down my numerous scores is the better offense, then that's your opinion. You can look at your one game in that sample, I'll take a look at the 12 over the course of the season, the correct way to look at it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, I’m basing it on 3 games against common opponents – which is the best way to evaluate a team (other than them actually facing each other on the field).</p>

<p>In addition to the UI game, NU’s O was able to move the ball against UM’s and dOSU’s D. The thing that hurt the ‘Cats was TO’s – mistakes which can be corrected by coaching and experience.</p>

<p>Otoh, IU’s O really couldn’t move the ball against either UM’s or dOSU’s D (this is more reflective of actual talent).</p>

<p>And as for your “looking at [it] over the course of a season” – as I had stated earlier, looking at 2006 final stats for O’s isn’t really a good indicator.</p>

<p>Such stats don’t take into account personnel changes (anyone who thought that UM’s D this year was going to be anything like last year’s, which was good, not great and vulnerable to the pass, based on last year’s final stats is just plain loopy) and strength of schedule (would Hawaii’s high flying O score nearly as many points if they were facing SEC D’s weekly?).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is your entire argument about NU's offense being better than IU's offense not being based on one game? LMAO, "Uhh" was probably a better answer.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, work on your reading comprehension – it’s THREE games against common opponents – not one. LOL!</p>

<p>
[quote]
By the way, you were the one to bring the topic of 'who beat who by how much' up when you spoke initially about IU only winning in Champaign by 2, trying to convince another poster that this made NU's victory at home by 9 evidence that NU was a better team than IU. Again, reading comprehension, look at what you said. It's not that difficult. Did you not get into Northwestern or are you just posing as an NU student here?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Even with the 3 point swing (which btw, isn’t nearly as big as a factor since it’s not like IU took a 4-5 hr plane ride to the West Coast – a 2-3 hr bus ride to Champaign and playing in front of a half-empty stadium hardly comprises of “home field advantage”) – NU still BEAT UI by a greater margin.</p>

<p>So uhh, please explain to everyone how exactly this supports your loopy argument?</p>

<p>
[quote]
And I would come back and say that it is typical for a below average football fan to use the UConn and SIU games as evidence against IU. Now an above average football fan would note that James Hardy was suspended for that game, Terry Hoeppner (the coach) was in the hospital for those games, and IU hadn't settled on a QB for those games, rotating Powers and Lewis during the UConn games. For one to assume that that game is representative of the talent on the IU team is about as ridiculous as stating that how you do against a top defense where you have no chance is a good way of measuring how good an offense is.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The situation for NU was WORSE and by the time IU played dOSU and UM, IU was fairly settled in its O.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, I got the ASU game wrong. As did 99% of the analysts in the country. Where did you talk about how ASU was going to win? Where was your prediction? What about the oddsmakers putting the line at Michigan by 34, a much larger spread than which I said Michigan would win by?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That’s b/c many analysts/pollsters/oddsmakers are horribly ignorant about 1-AA ball (just as they can be with 1-A ball when they touted ND as national champ material last year) – congrats, so you’re just as ignorant about FB, esp. 1-AA FB, as the rest of them.</p>

<p>CA/Sam -</p>

<p>At the very least, which team having the better O this year is debateable - which is a far outcry from wolves' initial claim that -</p>

<p>
[quote]
Indiana most definitely has a better offense than Northwestern.

[/quote]
</p>

[A2Wolves6]

<p>CerebralAssassin, Don't worry, the_prestige and I have both realized not to argue with this clown. I'm sure he's not representative of the knowledge level of the average student at your institution.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>^ LOL!!</p>

<p>That's b/c neither you nor prestige have anything concrete or substantial to say (which is also probably why you have been wearing out your welcome over on the UM board).</p>

<p>Btw, nice resorting to ad hominem attacks when you can't successfully debate the issue at hand.</p>

[kk19131]

<p>How bout them Blue Devils..... :rolleyes:</p>