Will bad recs kill you?

Applying to College
21

<p>My music teacher told me I could write my own recommendation and have her sign it, and I refused. My parents called me idealistic and naive, but I think my dignity is worth at least that much.</p>

<p>I have not read a single one of my teacher recommendations, nor have I enlisted any help with my essays. Sure, it may be common practice in the process, and it can even be a part of the "system" now, but learning to do things the straight way will probably pay off later in life.</p>

<p>If you have money, you can hire people to write your essays, hire people to draft recommendations, hire private tutors for SATs. It's all going down the ****hole, but cheaters don't graduate ;)</p>

22

<p>Good for you pebbles...seriously</p>

23

<p>pebbles.. I admire you</p>

24

<p>I appreciate pebble's passion on this subject.
I'd like to ask, though, what is fundamentally wrong with a student writing his or her own essay? I've never encountered this situation, so I don't really understand the underlying effects here. Wouldn't most students be humbled by the experience? Excluding narcissists, it's often easier for people to be critical of themselves, rather than full of praise. And what if you wrote a platitude about how wonderful you are, and your teacher says, "Sorry, that's not really accurate, trim it down a bit and throw in a few of your weaknesses." <em>That</em> is :o (embarassing)!</p>

25

<p>"I'd like to ask, though, what is fundamentally wrong with a student writing his or her own essay?"</p>

<p>are you serious... You are aware of the fact that this is supposed to be a TEACHER EVALUATING YOU. You are breaking the rules and defeating the whole purpose of the reccomendation if you write it yourself. Feel free to sedn a note to the college saying you wrote your teacher's reccomendation of you and see how they react. It is no better than having your parents write all your essays for the application.</p>

26

<p>The teachers let you guys see their recommendations? Thats pretty lame.</p>

27

<p>gianievve - </p>

<p>Though sitting down and evaluating yourself as a person can be a very valuable experience (and everyone should participate in some form of introspection once in a while), like wbm stated, it's simply not the point of the teacher recommendation. Your entire resume/application is supposed to be self-flattering - doing your best to make yourself sound great. There are some who stretch the truth a bit, throw in a few more years for certain extra curriculars, or exaggerate their involvement in clubs. All those manipulations are trivial and wouldn't help you a bit in the application process besides making you feel better about yourself. In fact, they probably get sick of hearing about how great you are from YOU. Therefore, the teacher recommendation is relied upon heavily (along with the interview) to provide a supposedly impartial report of you as a person. The teachers will have nothing to gain and nothing to lose if you do or don't get into College X or Program Y, so theoretically they're supposed to give the most candid evaluation. </p>

<p>The only way to allow for this would be to protect complete confidentiality. Talk to your teachers a bit about certain points you'd like them to focus on, offer a stamped envelope addressed to your college, and leave the rest up to them. By signing the waver at the top of the recommendation form (which most people do), you signed away your right to see the recommendations, EVER. It's then not only morally questionable, but also blatant fraud if you go and write the teacher recommendation yourself.</p>

28

<p>If the teacher tells you to write your own rec what they are telling you is that you esentially are not worth their time or effort. You should move on and get someone else</p>

29

<p>I thought pebbles was talking about essays, so my post was about the essays, not teacher recommendations. Sorry, got confused with the topic :p

[quote]
I'd like to ask, though, what is fundamentally wrong with a student writing his or her own essay?

[/quote]
</p>

30

<p>"I'd like to ask, though, what is fundamentally wrong with a student writing his or her own essay?"</p>

<p>Uh... in that case... nothing? Because you REALLY should be writing your own personal essay =&lt;/p>

31

<p>hence my confusion =/ - thanks for clarifying :)</p>

32

<p>heh sorry for jumping on you in your moment of confusion. I am just disgusted by some of these people who are writing their teacher reccomendations or having others write their essays.... I for one am not even going to see my teacher reccomendations and am just hoping for the best.</p>

33

<p>Everyone has so much to say about everyone elses posts, but you don't even know each individual's reasons for doing the things they do. Do you think I'd be writing my own recommendations if there were well-educated, professional-writing teachers at my school who were willing to put ample time and effort into writing an essay that will determine what school I'll be attending for the next four years of my life? I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is great to write your own recs to make yourself look better to adcoms. What I'm saying is that teachers at my school are not willing to do what it takes to help students like me get into the colleges we want to attend, so I simply do it myself. And I don't really care who doesn't like it or who thinks it's so "ridiculously fraudulent". You're not writing the recs; I am.
You're not trying to balance this with extracurriculars, a part-time job, and homework; I am. And for the rest...</p>

<p>"3.97 that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It completely destroys the integrity of the recommendation process at your schools. You write your owns recs and have them proofread? I hope colleges learn of your school's fraudulent practices and if you submit that there is nothing wrong with what you do I challenge you to send a letter to all the schools you're applying to explaining how you wrote your own recs."</p>

<p>Ilovepoker,</p>

<p>Yeah, it is ridiculous. It's rediculous that I am forced to take this aspect of my education into my own hands when it's not even supposed to be my responsibility. I hope colleges learn of my school's fraudulent practices too, so students like me will not have to do so much. Why don't you write letters to all 27 colleges I've applied to and notify them? I'm sure they will do sometihng about it immediately, as it is such an important matter.</p>

<p>3.97</p>

<p>"are you serious... You are aware of the fact that this is supposed to be a TEACHER EVALUATING YOU. You are breaking the rules and defeating the whole purpose of the reccomendation if you write it yourself. Feel free to sedn a note to the college saying you wrote your teacher's reccomendation of you and see how they react. It is no better than having your parents write all your essays for the application."</p>

<p>wbm777,</p>

<p>Yes, I know what a teacher recommendation is. This is not a website for pre-schoolers. There is no need to talk to me as if I'm 2. Why don't you call my school and tell my counselor "the rules".</p>

<p>3.97 </p>

<p>"If the teacher tells you to write your own rec what they are telling you is that you esentially are not worth their time or effort. You should move on and get someone else"</p>

<p>gianievve,</p>

<p>I doubt that this is what they mean. I would not consider myself a waste of thier time, nor do I think they would. I am salutatorian of my class. I have a 3.97 UW GPA. I am taking 4 college classes as a dual-enrollment student at one of the best universities in the state. I am SGA President. I am senior class president. I have a part-time job. I have an Ebay store. I am actively involved in community service. I have been accepted to every college that I've applied to. I have been to summer camps and enrichment programs every summer since fourth grade. Many of my teachers do not know how to format letters or what to say. That's why I write, they read, they sign, and they submit.</p>

<p>3.97</p>

34

<p>threepointnineseven that is the craziest thing I have ever heard. It destroys the point of having a rec and just makes it into another essay that others are required to proofread.</p>

<p>bsbllallstr8 I am sure that schools get many recs from teachers who do not care. Just because they lack any luster may hurt a bit but as loing as they don't openly despise you in their writing it should be okay. That is a bad situation though. :(</p>

<p>pebbles that is great. I am sure that when your teacher writes the rec he may put in about how honest you are. That would say something about your academic integrity. :)</p>

35

<p>3.97 - Just because your teachers don't know how to format letters or what to say doesn't make what you're doing right. The colleges want your teachers' opinions of you, not your opinion of yourself approved by a teacher.</p>

36

<p>That was a good sob story 3.97...maybe you should make a movie about it. I'll take your word for it that the faculty at your school is apparently comprised of idiots who are not capable of writing. I highly doubt that all of your teachers are miserable frauds but let's take at face value. This does not justify your abuse of the college application process. You just mentioned how great you are...second in your class, summer programs, jobs, college classes, you get into every college you apply to. Tell me then, is it really necessary to compromise not only your personal integrity but really the integrity of each one of your college admissions? If you give me your school information and the colleges you're applying to, I will glady write to the colleges about the fraud you are practicing and give your school administrators a piece of my mind as well. If you don't feel comfortable posting that here, please leave me a private message.</p>

37

<p>CCers are supposed to be so smart, but some of you are obviously not. You act as if you cannot even read and interpret simple English. I am not saying that it is right to write your own recs. I am saying that teachers at my school DO NOT write them. FOR ANYONE!!! That's why I write my own. I don't need anyone telling me how wrong it is and how I should not do it. If you were in my situation you would have no other choice. But you obviously can't understand anything further than what you know from your personal experiences. You need to learn to think outside of your little "my teachers willingly and accurately write recommendations for all 300 students of my senior class who want them to" box. Although honesty is no doubt the best route in life, the real world is not perfect, honest, or just. Get used to it.</p>

38

<p>3.97 - with all due respect, things always balance out. </p>

<p>"Many of my teachers do not know how to format letters or what to say. "</p>

<p>You complain about the quality of your teachers at your school and how they are not motivated in helping their students, so I will naturally assume that you go to a somewhat non-competitive school, where the majority of the kids either attend state schools or don't give a damn where they go to college. Correct me if this assumption is HONESTLY wrong (as in don't refute it simply because of what I'm about to say). </p>

<p>You have the following advantages because of your uncompetitive school -</p>

<ul>
<li><p>grade inflation for the top students
Again, with all due respect and not taking away from your hard work, a 3.97 GPA is a LOT easier to obtain at some schools than others. My school is not very competitive either, however it does have VERY difficult top-level classes that weed out everyone but the few top kids in the school (I feel like I'm being weeded out in spanish). Either way, I still have a good rank without working hard for it. On the other hand, there are top public and private schools in which you can work your ass off and MAYBE pull off a B average. Sure, at these schools you'd get awesome recommendations from quality teachers and counselors, but you'd end up with a crappy rank and GPA. It all balances out.</p></li>
<li><p>Less homework
YES, I did read in the middle of that long list that you take four college classes at a top state university. So do a large portion of my friends. At Yale. It doesn't make them any better or smarter than the rest of us. Just pay, and you can take classes there that are not offered at the school. Yes, you'd probably have homework from those college courses that run twice a week or so, but if your school is not as competitive, then the bulk of your work would be from these college classes.</p></li>
<li><p>Less competition for top colleges
Because of how stressed out you are about this, I would assume you're applying to some of the top colleges in the country. From what you have stated about your school, I got the feeling that not many students care so much about their recommendations beside yourself. Naturally, that would mean they're not applying to the same top schools you're applying to. Less applicants from same area, better chances.</p></li>
<li><p>Less competitive for extra-curriculars and leadership spots, etc.
Kids can be like VULTURES at top public schools. Even the competition for worthless officer positions in worthless clubs is insane. (Trust me, my cousin goes to a high school with an average SAT score of 1350) Imagine running for a spot like senior class president in one of THOSE schools.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Well there are plenty more, but you get my point. I hope I didn't offend, because I was not trying to take away from anything you've accomplished, but trying to put things into perspective a bit. Coming from one of those less-competitive schools myself, I understand the ABSOLUTE need for self-motivation in order to succeed. There are not so many over-achievers around you to rub off of. However, I do not feel sorry for you because there are distinct advantages, college application-wise, of going to a less-competitive high school. I've accepted the disadvantages that may come with it as well: maybe my recommendations won't be as beautifully written, but rightfully, they are not for me to control anyways. So the next time you say,</p>

<p>"You're not trying to balance this with extracurriculars, a part-time job, and homework; I am."</p>

<p>Remember there are kids out there who have to work much harder than you do (than I do as well).</p>

39

<p>phew. that was long. </p>

<p>But one more thing: I know people who come from the MOST academically indolent areas of the entire country, and quite frankly, they are able to get recommendations in the middle of the desert/mountains. I highly doubt that ALL of your teachers, advisors, and all your college professors would blatantly DENY writing a recommendation for you. I think, more than anything, you fear their quality or they may need a little push in the right direction - a kind letter, a guideline for the rec, more respect from students like you?</p>

<p>And what's this about you already being accepted into all the colleges you applied you? Why bother sending recommendations if youre already... accepted?</p>

40

<p>wow, do you all actually get to read your recs? weird...thats the only part of the application process im not worried about...at my school, teachers spend quite a while actually writing the recs...but we're def. not allowed to read/write the recs for ourselves...whats the point of calling it a teacher rec if its really a student glorifying themself?</p>