Will Barnard take into account my special financial circumstances?

I’m a senior at a high school in Mobile, Alabama. I have a 30 ACT, 4.1 weighted GPA, and I’m extremely politically active, so my extracurriculars are pretty top-notch. I applied to Barnard ED and will receive notification from them on December 12th. I interviewed with an alumnus and it went really well, and overall, I feel good about getting accepted. However, even if I am accepted, the financial aid package is going to be the deciding factor (as it is for many families).

Here’s a breakdown of my situation: My father has a net income of $146,000 per year. My parents divorced in August 2015. They did not go through the courts; they had an “amicable” divorce, so to speak. Since August 2015, my dad has paid my mom $2400 a month ($28,800 per year) in what is called “alimony-in-gross.” They technically have joint custody; however, on the CSS profile and FAFSA, my father is considered the custodial parent because I primarily live with him and am completely financially dependent on him.

My father has to pay this money to my mom for the next 13 years regardless of her marital status. They also agreed that they could not claim it on the tax documents; therefore, that $2400 per month is not recorded on any information on the FAFSA or CSS (with the exception of the “special circumstances” portion of the CSS in which he described what’s going on). Barnard required both of these forms as well as additional tax documents from my mother and father.

Our current EFC is around $45,000 from doing the Barnard net price calculator, CSS profile, and FAFSA. We can’t afford to pay this much per year. I have $20,000 set aside for me from my grandfather that I am more than willing to use to fund my college expenses, and I am also willing to take out a maximum of $20-25k in loans. We can afford to pay, at most, $20k per year for college flat-out.

I’ll also add that my mother chooses not to work and therefore chooses not to contribute anything toward my college expenses. So her income is nothing more than the money my dad gives her, which isn’t enough to produce a legitimate EFC from her regardless (to my understanding).

I know nobody can give me a concrete answer because obviously none of you work at Barnard’s Financial Aid Office, but I guess I’m just asking from others’ personal experiences. Will Barnard take into account the $2400 my dad pays my mom per year? If so, wouldn’t that essentially mean that they would subtract that amount ($28,800) from our net income (or our EFC)? If that’s the case, we can absolutely afford for me to attend Barnard because $45,000-$28,800 is under $17k per year. And I know that won’t be exact, but even if it was $25k per year, that would be fine as well.

Again, we described the circumstances in the CSS “special circumstances” portion, and we also sent a letter to Barnard a few days after I submitted my ED application explaining the situation and offering to provide documentation (the divorce decree) as evidence of our situation. Barnard responded immediately and said they would put the letter in my financial aid profile, which I saw through my portal that they did. But they have not yet asked for the divorce decree. Is there any reason why Barnard would decide to not take the money into account? From my understanding, the financial aid package and acceptance letter are supposed to arrive on the same day, but I’ve been told my several people (as well as the alumnus whom I interviewed with) that they probably wouldn’t do anything about it until after I’m accepted anyway. Any insight provided onto this topic would be extremely helpful. I am IN LOVE with Barnard. I firmly, 100% believe that it is where I’m meant to be, so this thought is on my mind every day as I anticipate my decision letter on the 15th.

Thanks in advance!

SIDE NOTE: Are my chances of getting better financial aid increased whatsoever by being in the ED pool? Or does it matter?

Your need based aid is not likely to be any different because you applied ED.

The colleges are going to look at the income your dad makes. Your mom has no income, right?

The colleges don’t give two hoots about your tax filing status or the divorce decrees or conditions of a divorce. Those things don’t weigh into the awarding of need based aid.

I’m not sure I see a special circumstance for you. Are you hoping that the money your dad has to pay your mom won’t be counted in HIS income? If that is the case…don’t count on that happening. It’s like any other expense…that payment to your mom does NOT affect your dad’s actual earned income.

I guess at this point just wait and see. I’m not sure why you felt applying ED was a good ide with a sort of complicated financial situation.

Maybe it will work out…and maybe it won’t.

When you apply ED, you are still usually allowed to apply to your instate public university. Hoping yo7 DID apply to University of Alabama and got that application submitted before today. If you are a competitive applicant for Barnard, you likely would get some merit aid from Alabama…if you met that deadline.

@mom2collegekids if the student didn’t meet the deadline…what can she do??

The fact that your mother chooses not to work is also irrelevant.

Technically, I can withdraw from the ED agreement if affordability is the issue. That is the one condition in which withdrawing from ED is acceptable without consequences in regards to applying to other schools. So, even if it doesn’t work out, I have a very good reason for withdrawing because I was very unsure what they would take into account and what they wouldn’t. So I’m not worried about that.

Every person I’ve asked so far about this has said that they will take the money into account and that I shouldn’t worry about it, so you’re the first that I’ve heard otherwise @thumper1 . Not to invalidate/discredit your opinion whatsoever–I’m just curious as to why you’re so sure about the fact that they will ignore those details.

I agree with thumper1’s post. They will look at your dad’s income. You are still benefiting from it, after all.

@coccaro0

I was pretty clear…I said I am not sure I see a special circumstance. I’m not positive…I’m just not sure.

And not wishing to be snarky…but if you were so sure this money would NOT be taken into consideration…why did you start this thread…at all?

You are not the only person who lives with a custodial parent who pays spousal support to a non-custodial parent. It’s just not a one off…and it’s not really uncommon.

At this point…it’s december. You really are in a wait and see mode. So just wait and see.

But I do hope you applied to Alabama wher you have the possibility of getting decent merit aid which is not at all tied to family finances.

There are three people responsible for contributing to your EFC – you, your father and your mother. If there’s $28,800 each year that gets transferred from your father to your mother, I don’t see how that makes much difference in the size of the pot of money that can be used to meet the EFC obligation.

Do the three people you asked and told you they will deduct the alimony know anything particular about the college admission/financial aid process?

The Barnard alumnus I interviewed with said they will definitely take it into account, and she previously worked for Barnard undergraduate admissions (if that means anything).

I don’t think that Barnard is going to take that money into account. I think they are going to rely on what is shown in tax returns. Even if they did take it into account, they are looking at the income of both parents together - and your father still has an income of $127K annually (subtracting out the money he sends to your mom) – which would still leave you with a substantial EFC.

You can reasonably expect that Barnard will set your EFC at around $45K – because that is what the NPC reflects. Barnard has a very consistent and formulaic appoach to determining aid. Of course if you are accepted and are unhappy with financial aid you have every right to contact Barnard to ask them if they factored that information into their aid determination, and if so, how it impacted calculations.

You wrote:

No, that isn’t how EFC is calculated. If they did consider that payment as alimony reducing your father’s income, that would be subtracted out of his income, – not subtracted from your EFC. So if a $146K income yields a $45K EFC, you might reasonably expect a $127K income to yield an EFC of around $39K. It’s not that simple because I don’t know how much of your father’s EFC calculation is derived from income and how much is from assets – but EFC is calculated as a percentage of income. (So I just did a quick and dirty rough guess based on the $45K figure being around 31% of income-- but again, the actual formulas are more complicated.)

If you want to know what it might be, then run the FAFSA4caster calculation with the assumption that your father’s income is reduced by alimony at - https://fafsa.ed.gov/FAFSA/app/f4cForm?execution=e1s1 – and run the Barnard NPC with the same assumption – and then you will see what your best case scenario is.

There is no way that you will get sufficient need based aid to meet that limit whether or not your dad’s payments to your mom are considered, because either way he has a 6-figure income.

It is not possible to have a divorce without going through the court. There is no ‘common law divorce.’ They may have had a ‘do it yourself’ divorce, but some court had to sign the decree and the terms. Parties can agree that any payment for alimony between them is not taxable. If the payer, you father, doesn’t take the amount paid as a tax deduction, then the party receiving it doesn’t have to declare it as income. It’s not alimony. However, it is still income to the earner (your father) because he earned $147k and what he does with that income is up to him.

We all decide what to do with the money we earn. Good things, bad things, court ordered or not, it’s income and right there on your tax filing unless you can find a deduction or credit. Alimony paid is a deduction, but then it becomes income to the other party.

Alabama’s merit deadline is Dec 15…get your app in as a backup

At this point, who even knows if the OP will be accepted…maybe she will, maybe she won’t. It’s not a given. My niece wasn’t accepted and she was a NMF, Val, and had better stats and excellent ECs.

At this point, get your apps in for safety schools that will give you the merit you need. Alabama is one.

What is your dad’s GROSS income. You gave his net income.

<<<<<$45,000-$28,800 is under $17k per year. >>>

No way are they going to subtract the amount that your dad pays your mom from your EFC.

They would not subtract $28,000 from your $45,000 EFC- that would not happen. That is not how an EFC is calculated.

Plesse apply right now to schools that give merit so that you have affordable options if this does not work out.

Ypunare fortunate to have an instate option that gives VERY generous merit aid. Get that application in to Alabama ASAP…like today. It takes all of 30 minutes to do both the admission application AND the scholarship application.

Folks are correct…the amount paid to your mom isn’t going tomget subtracted from your family contribution, IF it gets subtracted from anywhere, it would be from your dad’s income. BUT your mom would be required to list that spousal support on HER non-custodial parent Profile…so really…that income isn’t going to go away regardless.

Oh…and folks working in ADMISSIONS do not make financial aid decisions. The financial aid department makes those. Barnard admissions folks would have never know the financial ins and outs of all those applying for financial aid,

It’s a wash, your dad doesn’t get to deduct the alimony paid and your mom doesn’t declare the alimony received as income. Although I don’t know if this is allowed per the tax code.

But if your dad was able to deduct alimony paid, then your mom would also have to declare it as income which would raise her income and her EFC.

So you have an EFC component from your dad’s income and assets, your income and assets, and your mom’s income and assets.

So I don’t think the EFC will come down from $40,000 to $20,000.

Please apply to some automatic merit schools like UA and UAH right now so you will have an affordable option.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc452

Tax rules concerning alimony (just for information for your dad to see if he can deduct the expense, it will not help your situation, especially at a school that uses CSS profile and NCP profile ).

I appreciate all of the information, but I have not said once on this thread that Barnard is the only school I’m applying to. I’ve already applied to seven other schools, two of which are in-state. That isn’t the focus of this thread.

I understand now that they won’t subtract it from his EFC, which is reasonable. But I find it very hard to believe that they will use that income as my mom’s EFC when my mom lives alone and relies solely on that money. Anybody whose income is $2400 per month (or $28,800k per year) would automatically have an EFC of zero at any other school, so what makes her different?

delete

Does Barnard use the income from both parents or just the custodial parent? If they use the income from both parents, why wouldn’t your mothers income count?

What do you mean by your mom’s EFC?