will high school at andover help or hurt my child's chances of ivy league college admission

I’m going to slide one more element in for consideration. Irl, once a kid goes away to school, they don’t ‘come home’ again. Yes, they are come back for holidays- but they have a new life now, and the parents house is someplace they visit, between deployments. That is right and normal- and happens whether the ‘school’ is BS or college. Part of the BS decision (esp when there are good local options) comes down to ‘is this kid ready for that level of psychological independence-‘- but another part is ‘are we ready to step back from a lot of kinds of parenting?’

Another poster mentioned that you have to let go of thinking you can control the college app process- but it’s more than that. You have to let go of a lot of big parenting stuff- and you lose the opportunity for the micro level inputs… And, you lose living with this kid you love 4 years sooner.

That’s not to say BS is a bad thing! As the above posters have indicated- and my own experience confirms- BS can be great for a kid. But even when it is great there are trade-offs. If the goal is a specific college, then those trade-offs should also be factored into the ‘costs’ of that trade-off.

I’m still back on the OP’s point that the kid is ambivalent about going away to school. Pretty sure someone in my BS dorm had a poster on her wall with the classic Emerson quote “nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm”.

Just want to point out that being val at a public isn’t a ticket into an Ivy either. Most of the vals from our local HS went to the state flagship. No one accepted into an Ivy in years and years and the last one was a hooked recruited athlete. There is no way to know if one particular kid would have had a better outcome at another school.

I do alumni meetings for Cornell. I haven’t had a non hooked student accepted in over 5 years, probably longer, regardless of where they went to HS, and most of these students were extremely impressive.

So much wisdom from @CateCAParent and others. They bring up important points that I’d like to build on to offer a slightly different view.

Access to strong college counseling is another reason to choose a BS over a local public school, not because they hold a magic key to Ivy admissions but because they get to know your kid incredibly well and can advise on what kind of environment will suit them best and help them thrive. They have years of experience advising families and kids and have seen which kinds of kids tend to do well where…

The OP is set on wanting an Ivy diploma for their child. But what if attending an Ivy League school isn’t the best fit for the kid? What if they would do better in grad school admissions and life if they attended a different kind of school, perhaps one with a larger social environment where they could either blend into the crowd, find an even larger stage/audience, or find a critical mass of peers who shared their interests? Or what if they would do better in a much smaller, less competitive school where they could realize how special they are instead of feeling insecure by being surrounded only by the top 5 percent of high achieving, competitive students? (I know many brilliant Ivy League grads who lost steam in college because they were intimidated by their peers and assumed they themselves weren’t meant for greatness. Ivy league schools are hot beds of impostor syndrome!)

Our child was involved in several very high-profile and selective activities in our city (think local government and performing with well-known artists and ensembles from around the world). Because we live in a larger city, the opportunities are greater than those she might have had at any BS. She was able to handle the time commitments (20-30 hours/week) and maintain straight As with little effort at a large, diverse LPS. I have no doubt they would have appeared “shinier” to Ivy league admissions officers had they stayed home. But here’s the catch: they would not have been as well-prepared for the academic rigor of an Ivy had they stayed home… Their freshman year in college would have been incredibly difficult and it might have affected their confidence and GPA for grad school. (That transition was hard enough in BS anyway. Their BS has a smaller acceptance rate than Andover.) And an Ivy might not even be the best fit. At her LPS, her college counselor would have been too overworked to advise us on whether or not an Ivy school was the best match.

We are playing the long game. We want our child to thrive once they get to college. We want her well-prepared for life beyond school. College acceptances are NOT the prize we seek from BS.

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I agree with @CateCAParent’s post, but this comment needs a bit of unpacking. The BS college admissions process is highly curated. Even if every student in the class were stat-qualified for , the BS would not “allow” 100 apps to that college as that college is relying on the historic relationship with that BS to have done the appropriate gating to present them only with the handful of targeted apps they are looking for; that’s one of the expected benefits the BS provides to the college. In @CateCAParent’s example, the acceptance rate probably would be more like 50% as the BS would have gated, say, 20 apps for the approximately 10 spots the college indicated were likely for that school’s bucket that year. (Yes, although there are no hard quotas, the BS DO have a good general idea of how many students some colleges will admit from their school. For one college our son applied to, the CC told us exactly what the number was for 2015.)

The BS cannot and does not forbid any student from applying anywhere, but the colleges have provided the BS with what they are looking for from that school’s pool that year, and the BS absolutely indicates which students they are advocating for as best fits for that college’s stated needs. Lots of conversation and back-and-forth that prevent the application process from being remotely random.

As an anecdote of this process, I found it telling and rather amusing that the very lengthy college intake form that Choate asked us to complete toward the end of junior year asked if there were any colleges we felt were well-suited to our child and why. I think that question was there, partly, to ferret out if we were likely to be a PITA come senior year. Preconceived college lists tell the school what to expect when dealing with parents. I don’t believe that question is there to guide the CC office toward enlightenment about the student. Also, Choate used to limit the number of applications from each student to ten: three reaches, three matches, three “safeties,” and the state flagship, unless there were extenuating circumstances (mostly FA need). The school has relaxed that rule, but still tries to keep each student’s list small but honed. The school was also very blunt during Parent College Weekend in explaining how their application process works and what parents should expect from their students and what parents should and shouldn’t expect from the school’s counseling office. It was quite eye-opening for some who had other expectations. Our son’s CC was refreshingly candid throughout the entire process about the list she and he were building and what his “chances” were at each of his choices given his competition for each school. THAT information was invaluable. ChoatieKid was test- and stat-competitive for any college, but his CC told him that two of the schools he was interested in just wouldn’t happen for him due to his competition and would be wasted apps. She also told him that his profile for one highly competitive program (not West Point) from Choate that year would almost surely be an admit. It was. There were no surprises in his results as his list was curated for great outcomes. THAT is what you are paying for.

@mothere: I mentioned upthread that Andover will help you understand that their focus is the high school education and not any particular college result. Will you be disappointed in your son’s college counseling if the list your son crafts with his CC is not as shiny as you expect or doesn’t contain the schools you had in mind even if the list is perfectly tailored to ensure great outcomes for your son? Will you be upset if the CC tells you upfront that his chances at some of the schools that are important to you just won’t happen? Will it bother you if the message you hear from the school when your son’s class enters the app cycle junior year is that the school’s goal is to find the best fits for each student and emphasizes why focusing on particular colleges is not a wise strategy? If any of these questions give you pause, you (not your son) are likely to face disappointment because the majority of Andover students do not end up at Ivies. OTOH, we don’t know your son. You may be underselling him, and he may end up being highly attractive to those top schools, and your current concerns are moot. The point is, you can’t know this yet.

I will end by saying that I agree with those who’ve posted that the level of education and resources and rich life experiences your son will consume at Andover is unmatched and is an end in itself. I would run with that choice and not look back. But, if you are still on the fence, the worst case of buyer’s remorse I’ve ever seen on CC is this and might be worth a read:

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1606092-kid-wants-to-stay-parents-want-to-bring-her-back-p1.html

(Check my post #42 in that thread)

Here’s a tidbit. Some simple math that doesn’t get much attention though has been alluded to in earlier comments here. There are roughly 24,000 public high schools in the United States (some places report the number as 19,000-20,000…not sure what the distinction is but the point stands). That means there are 24,000 valedictorians and 24,000 salutatorians applying to colleges every year.

48,000 kids ranked #1 or #2 at their LPS. That’s an absolutely enormous number. Even more so when you realize that an Ivy like Dartmouth may admit something like 1,800-1,900 kids. The odds are very, very long when looked at from a population view. And yes of course I realize that some 13th (or wherever) ranked kids get in.

Anyway, I land with everyone else and will quote @ChoatieMom : “the level of education and resources and rich life experiences your son will consume at Andover is unmatched and is an end in itself.”

@ChoatieMom - yeah, I hovered over writing that guesstimate because of the curating you describe. I went with it, though, figuring that without any curating about 1/3 of Andover students would apply to Harvard - and therefore a more apples to apples comparison to a public school application rate. The curating discussion is a complicated one, and I have no experience with it yet for kiddo. I am just pulling that number out of my you know what anyway, because it was useful for the comparison even if flawed.

I can see value in the “what schools do you see as a fit” question, beyond weeding out the pita parents, which surely it does. Parents have such a wide range of experiences, they probably get all kinds of responses. Some more thoughtful than others. Plus, if the kid has a different answer than the parents, that’s a critical conversation that must be had early on. I have pretty strong opinions about what kinds of schools would be best (LACs), but have no intention of imposing my will on the process. I can vomit up my list of schools once in response to that question, and they don’t have to placate me after that.

Agree. I answered the question with three words and a wink: “Anywhere but OSU.” I should have added service academies, too. Kids. Can’t control ‘em.

(Go Blue!)

They dont (im a senior there). They give us full and complete autonomy, although they often do this “under protest”.