I thought about putting this in the SAT thread but figured I’d throw it out to my fellow parents first. I know that everything is pure conjecture at this point anyway.
My son is a junior. He is aiming for T20 schools when he starts applications in the fall. He is very lucky in that he took the SAT in December. But, like most kids, he did not get his full-potential score right out of the gate. He got a very respectable mid-1400s with no studying. I’m sure he’s got the potential to score in what is typically considered ivy and T20 territory (1530+). He was registered to take the SAT again in the spring, but we all know how that turned out.
My older child is currently at a top ivy. When she went through the process, she followed a very similar track to my son. Her first two attempts at the SAT were in the high 1400 range. It wasn’t until her third attempt that she scored in the typical ivy range of mid 1500s.
Now that the June SAT has officially been canceled, I’m starting to wonder how top schools will look at the SAT scores of our current juniors? Even if they go SAT-optional, how will they view a mid 1400 score if submitted? Will they view it as a baseline attempt from a student who didn’t have the same opportunity to retake multiple times like students in previous years?
My son will (hopefully) retake the SAT in August or the fall, but there are still so many qustions. Should he totally scrap the SAT subject tests which were previously heavily looked-at for engineering majors? Is submitting good subject scores still a worthwhile endeavor? Or, should he sacrifice those in pursuit of a higher regular SAT score?
I guess this was a very long-winded way of asking: Do you think the SAT threshold will be lowered at top schools? How much leeway will be given to students who submit a lower-than-their-potential score?
And, yes, I know we are all just guessing at this point
Who knows for sure, but I think that the cancelling of so many test administrations and the possibility that even the fall might not be “normal” mean that scores will be a little lower on average in the Ivy applicant pool. This is because of fewer retakes, less “picks” from which to assemble superscores, potentially even increased stress in the testing pool due to virus dislocations.
I wouldn’t hazard a guess as to whether there really is a “threshold” for any particular Ivy. But if there is I’d think it would have to be a little lower too. You have to work with what you got, and Ivy admissions offices are no different in that respect.
Both kids I know at U Penn scored a max 1460, so I think the premise that a 1500+ is a requirement at a top 20 is flawed to begin with. I don’t think schools see a 1460 as being much different from a 1550 when you look at the whole package.
@NJWrestlingmom I see your point and I should probably qualify my assumption that a 1500+ is a “necessity” when looking at top 20s. I think that the higher SAT score becomes more important when you’re looking at unhooked kids in oversaturated demographics. I guess we will never know but our hunch is that the mid 1500 score helped our DD get into the school she’s at now. Whether she would have been admitted with a mid 1400 score…I’m not sure. But, no matter what the number, there’s got to be a general SAT score range that schools use as a baseline or threshold for the average admit. I haven’t seen many kids with a 1350 or 1400 getting into HYP. The kids who do get in with lower SATs probably have other areas of their application that make them exceptional or desirable from an admissions standpoint. Whatever the number is for the “average” applicant, I’m just wondering if it will fluctuate at all this year.
I have the same question. D21 got a 1450 but had not had a math class for 6 months prior so she wants to retake while in practice for math (was registered for May and then June SATs). Aug/Sept doesn’t really accomplish that but that’s what she’s got to work with. And Subject Tests are going to fall by the wayside. I can’t imagine that on average SAT scores will be lower this next application cycle. T20/Ivies have a lot of top students to choose from though so it wouldn’t surprise me if their averages don’t budge much.
Many schools are going test optional but my D21 reply wants to submit because her Verbal score was very high. But if she doesn’t have an opportunity to raise her math she still might be better going TO. I don’t know how we will decide.
I doubt that SAT scores are the tie breakers we think they are at Ivies. In other words, if they admit a kid with a score of 1530 over a kid with a 1450, it probably wasn’t just because of the score.
Given how many hours some kids invest in test prep, I wonder if kids hoping to increase their scores from 1450 to 1500+ wouldn’t be better served admissions-wise by investing that same time and intensity into a passion project?
I predict that SAT scores will be less of a predictor with the applications this Fall. Because so many students haven’t had the opportunity to take the tests multiple times, the average test scores will likely be less. The curves may be off as well. I predict that schools will place less emphasis on test scores, including the top 20 schools. They know that there needs to be some flexibility since kids haven’t had as many opportunities to test. Even if they can test in the Fall online at home, there could be other issues such as access to wifi, cheating, etc… There is really know way to know right now for sure. Everything at this point is speculation.
I agree this is all speculation…but one factor that could lead to higher scores is that it’s possible, that of those who have already taken at least one test, that sample might be skewed to relatively stronger students. Stronger students and/or those from relatively affluent school districts tend to take more tests on average, and start taking them earlier.
I agree. Kids who either already had a strong score before Covid or received a high score with one try may have an advantage. However, I still think there will be flexibility because of access. My kids go to a very diverse school and rely on the school for the test. It was cancelled and a lot of these kids will have to wait until fall when it is offered at school. I don’t think schools can count it against them if they have lower scores.
I’m curious what will happen with T20 schools and TO. Seems unlikely they will be TO but that does mean it’s possible that some kids flat out can’t apply. If the SAT in-person tests are cancelled through October then the only option will be online and who the heck knows what that test will be like? Will it even be a full SAT like we know it? If SAT is cancelled then ACT will be as well. AGain, stuck with online. Will the T20 schools really say you have to have a score in that situation?
Students will have to decide what scores to send to TO schools…this will probably be a more difficult decision at schools that just went TO for the upcoming cycle.
If a score is below the 25% mark of the historical admitted range, the student probably shouldn’t send the score. Some people would say don’t send any score below the 50% mark.
Each of these decisions will be unique to the student and should take the relative strength of the other application components into account…basically, does the test score make the app stronger, or not? If not…probably best not to send.
I suspect the ranges will be out the window, especially for schools that super score. @homerdog if the ACT and SAT are cancelled in person through the Fall, the schools will have to be flexible, especially for kids without access.
I think schools that are going test optional for the first time don’t quite know what to expect either. I think a lot of them are doing it to attract as many applicants as possible.
The biggest advantage to schools will be ED full pay. That will be the biggest boost. Schools need yield and money even more than they need higher test scores.
Hmm, what do you consider a 'bottom Ivy"? (It’s fine to mention if your kid is at one of HYP. Be proud, but don’t indirectly denigrate the other 5. After all, Wharton would be the top Ivy biz program.)
@DoingOurBest We had the same thoughts/questions. S21 took the SAT in December, I think, having taken a few old SATs. He got a 1520. 800M/720ERW. Before corona virus, his school college guidance officer told him to take the SAT again, to try to bring up his ERW. He said he should shoot to get at least a 1550. So, he registered. In the meantime, he took a practice ACT and got a 36. So, he registered for the ACT. Both were cancelled.
We’re thinking maybe he should take the ACT as soon as he can, and use the SAT for a physics subject test (he has a math II 800 score, but his chem was only 740, which the counselor said was too low), as he too is thinking about engineering. Of course, going this route assumes he’d replicate his ACT practice test results in real life.
Has your son tried the ACT? He might do better on that, and then he could use the SAT for the subject tests. My S is not an English kid and found the ACT reading/English so much easier than the SAT. Even our D21 who is an English kid did way better on the ACT reading/english and math. Every kid’s different, but it’s a thought.
FWIW, lots of kids at our kids’ school have taken these tests multiple times already, so I’m imagining that’s happened around the country. So, there will be kids out there applying with high test scores. And there are all the one and done 1570+ kids.
I guess we’ll see how it all shakes out. I think the TO policies will help kids with amazing ECs shine. If that’s your S, and the schools he interested in have announced TO by the next test date, maybe you can forget the tests!
@havenoidea Retaking a 1520? That score plus two very respectable SAT subject tests sounds like a very good place to be! Also check which schools are requiring or recommending subject tests. Even before COVID, very few competitive schools are requiring them these days. Caltech and MIT, for example, recently removed them from consideration.
@mamaedefamilia Thanks. Normally, I’d agree (we think D21 is situated very well with a 34 ACT), but this S’s biggest strength is his math ability (will be in Diff equations/linear alg next yr) and grades. He doesn’t have amazing ECs because he played a year-round sport since he was young that took up a ton of time and he’d hoped to play at D-1 level, but a medical issue derailed his plans, though he kept playing (reason he didnt take ACT yet). And, he’s a legacy at Duke and Penn, so if he loved one of those, was thinking of applying ED. I know scores can’t make up for ECs (he does have some besides the sport, like math club/competitions, lol (not those top ones) and music), but I’m thinking a really high ACT and phys subject test would help make his case. His school’s college guidance counselor seemed to think his strength in math was like a spike, if he got those higher scores. I’m not sure this is right, but he’s not trying to go to MIT, Caltech, HYPS. So?
@havenoidea With those scores (assuming grades to match) and legacy/ED bump at either Duke or Penn, I’d think he’d be quite competitive! He’s also got the 800 for both SAT I and II and his math acceleration looks impressive. Will he be going into engineering or some other STEM path?
A 1520 with legacy/ED preference should be fine assuming his grades are solid too. You say your S doesn’t have “amazing ECs,” but playing a year round sport is an excellent EC. It shows dedication, tenacity, and, oftentimes, leadership. My dual sport Penn student (who also had recruitment hopes) received state and national awards and was able to show leadership skills gained through her sports in her application (e.g. mentoring younger players, etc).
Penn seems to consider the entire application package as D19 knows unhooked students who received SAT scores at or below the 25th percentile, but who had other strong parts of their applications. Your S already has great test scores and the difference between 1520 and 1550 in holistic review is negligible. Instead of focusing on standardized tests, think of how best to highlight your S’s accomplishments.
