<p>In an earlier thread, I discussed how my family would be unable to pay our $30k EFC. I spoke with a college counselor, and he stated that I could take the aid from certain colleges, and use that to motivate other colleges to match that aid. Is this true?
I hope to attend a highly-ranked university (Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Columbia, UCB, UChicago, etc.). If this whole aid-matching thing is true, which college would be a good place to apply in the hopes of getting a good aid package to use to get these top-tier colleges to match it? I am looking for a private California school with a strong Engineering program.
Thanks.</p>
<p>Most colleges won’t bargain. As you go up the selectivity scale, almost no colleges will. Why should they have to when they’re already rejecting the huge majority of their well-qualified applicants? </p>
<p>Take the advice offered on your other thread - apply to some less-selective schools where you’re likely to be offered significant merit aid, and have at least one financial safety.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure where the above information comes from but it’s absolutely NOT true. Top schools (e.g. the Ivies) will REVIEW offers you get from peer schools (OTHER IVIES and the like) and sometimes will increase their offers. These schools have the money to do so, and if they have accepted an applicant they can afford to review and increase their need based aid offers. And because most of these (Princeton uses it’s own form instead of the Profile) use the PROFILE, the “method” for computing aid is totally up to the schools. They do NOT use the FAFSA EFC.</p>
<p>What you WILL find is that schools that do not have deep pockets will NOT even discuss your financial aid award with you. It is what it is…period.</p>
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<p>I’m confused…you say you want to go to a good private college in CA that has good engineering. The only PRIVATE CA university on this list is Stanford. Is your plan to apply to these schools, get a good need based award and use it to “leverage” aid from some CA private? Stanford has the most generous need based financial aid of any school out there (that I know of). If you get accepted there (no easy task) there would likely be NO NEED to dispute the aid you get offered.</p>
<p>All of the schools on your list EXCEPT UCB meet full need by THEIR calculations. All except UCB also require the CSS PROFILE as an application for financial aid. ALL have net price calculators on their websites…you can get an estimate of what your family contribution will be at each one.</p>
<p>And lastly, agreed with Annasdad…and others on your other thread. If you cannot afford a $30K family contribution, you need to look at schools that you CAN afford…either because you qualify for significant merit aid guaranteed, or because the costs are within your family budget. </p>
<p>How much CAN your family afford? Bottom line is that you are not going to be reducing a $30K family contribution to $0.</p>
<p>Edit…one more thing. If you got generous need based aid from say Stanford, and your income is below their threshold, you would be paying 10% of that income to attend their school with no loans (so if your income is $120,000 per year, you would be paying about $12,000 this year to attend Stanford). If you take THAT offer to a school that does NOT have the generous financial aid pockets of Stanford (e.g. UCB or say…Santa Clara University), you will NOT find them particularly able or willing to “adjust” your aid to Stanford’s level. It just won’t happen because they do NOT have the same financial aid policies or deep pockets as Stanford.</p>
<p>*What you WILL find is that schools that do not have deep pockets will NOT even discuss your financial aid award with you. It is what it is…period.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>This is true, especially at schools that don’t give merit scholarships. Many schools simply do not have money to give away. </p>
<p>I highly doubt that if you were to get a big merit scholarship from, say Alabama, that Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Columbia, UCB, UChicago, etc, are going to care. </p>
<p>*I spoke with a college counselor, and he stated that I could take the aid from certain colleges, and use that to motivate other colleges to match that aid. Is this true?
*</p>
<p>I think you’re confusing what your GC said to you or your GC is confused. All aid is not the same. Need-based aid is very different from merit scholarships. If Cornell gave you more NEED-BASED aid, then Yale might match it. That’s a different issue than what you’re talking about. You have an unaffordable EFC, so you’re hoping that a school that gives you merit aid can be used to get more need-based aid from an elite. That won’t work.</p>
<p>However, if you got a merit scholarship from Alabama (based on your stats), then those high ranked schools will NOT care. Those high ranked schools KNOW that ALL of their students can get big merit from mid-tiers. </p>
<p>So, I think you’re confusing what your GC is telling you or your GC is confusing merit and need-based aid ( which happens - GC’s often get these things mixed-up). Those elites are going to expect your family to pay its “family contribution” unless there’s some significant reason…like main bread-winner has been unemployed for awhile, huge medical expenses, etc.</p>
<p>I hope to attend a highly-ranked university (Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Columbia, UCB, UChicago, etc.).</p>
<p>Pick a couple of these schools to see what happens. You have to prepare yourself that you likely won’t get the aid you want from an elite.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt that it’s going to cost you less than $15,000 a year (which is what you said your family can pay) at any of these schools EXCEPT Stanford and Yale which have VERY generous need based institutional aid.</p>
<p>What will happen is like peer schools will do a financial review of other peer like schools. the Ivies will consider doing a financial review with packages from other ivies, Amherst, Williams, Swat, etc.</p>
<p>Schools that only give need based FA will not care what you received in merit aid from some where else.</p>
<p>My concern is that your list is rather top heavy as all of the schools you have listed are reaches regardless of your stats. You are not a lock for any of them. In addition, I agree with Thumper, that your EFC is not going to be appreciably less at any of them. Have you run the net price calculator for each school?</p>
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<p>Here, among many other places:</p>
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<p>[10</a> Things Financial Aid Offices Won’t Say - SmartMoney.com](<a href=“Spending & Saving - MarketWatch”>Spending & Saving - MarketWatch)</p>
<p>I can tell you first hand that your post is not true, as in our house we did send a financial aid package from a peer school (top ranked LAC) to my D’s first choice school (Ivy) and they met the package. The Ivy simply asked that I submit their form for a financial review and to send the package from the LAC</p>
<p>In addition, I have also advised students on my caseload, made phone calls to different financial aid offices and it has happened.</p>
<p>No, schools will not “negotiate” or “bargain” with you like you are haggling on some street market, however many of them will do a financial review, especially if there are extenuating circumstances.</p>
<p>I also agree that your list is top heavy. With the exception of Harvy Mudd and MIT starting engineering salaries are tightly clustered. Your parents have been upfront with you about what they can afford. You are in a good position to compile a reasonable list of colleges.</p>
<p>mom3b,</p>
<p>I agree. Since Op already knows that they will not be able to afford the EFC, he would be better served casting a wider net to include schools where he stands a good chance of getting merit $$.</p>
<p>With the exception of Harvy Mudd and MIT starting engineering salaries are tightly clustered.</p>
<p>Very true. And those who graduate from MIT, Cal Tech, and HMU don’t see that much of a difference either…certainly not enough to justify any sizable debt.</p>
<p>It’s often shocking for new eng’g grads from “name schools” to find out that the other new hires from “non-name schools” are getting the same starting salaries. And, it’s frustrating if the grads from the name schools have to pay back student loans, while the other grads can use their entire salaries for living expenses, savings, investments, home purchases, etc.</p>
<p>If California is your dream destination (or if you live you) focus on the region. New Mexico has an excellent engineering program as do other schools in the west. If it’s the east your heading…then focus on the east. Finally arguably the midwest has many of the strongest engineering schools. I would never dismiss your ambition and you should certainly select one of the brass ring schools on your list - find the ones that are going to, in all probability, serve you best financially but after that you need to focus on schools that meet your geographic and financial goals to round out your list. If you are competitive for the schools on your list you are competitive for many other engineering programs. If finances are more important than location, schools like Case Western and others of it’s ilk should be on your list.</p>
<p>However, that does not mean that they will not give the student a financial review (which is the correct terminology), which includes submitting an offer from a peer school. </p>
<p>While the college itself does not use the terms negotiate or bargaining, some parents consider, what they are doing when requesting a financial review - negotiating. When most posters ask questions about negotiating/bargaining many of the posters are quick to correct the terminology.</p>
<p>Annasdad, I think the thing we are trying to tell you is that the MOST competitive and wealthy schools WILL review financial aid offers from other schools that are peer schools (Ivy to Ivy, or top LAC like a place like Williams to Ivy, or Williams to Amherst types of peers). The more wealthy the school and the deeper their financial pockets, and the more generous their need based policies are…the MORE likely they will be to discuss your aid from a PEER SCHOOL. </p>
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<p>I think you may mean that as you go DOWN the selectivity scale, schools will be less likely to “bargain” with you. The more selective schools WILL look at peer school offers as Sybbie noted.</p>
<p>“I am looking for a private California school with a strong Engineering program.”
Then apply to USC, BEFORE DEC 1. The have a excellent Engineering program. They also offer many[ 450+] 1/2 to full tuition scholarships to the strongest applicants[ i.e. those that will probably be accepted at Ivy caliber schools] and they also have an extremely generous FA program.</p>
<p>Ivy schools will often meet the FA offers of their “peer” schools". Thumper is correct. We asked the colleges where our DS was accepted, to “review” their FA offers[we did not use the term “negotiate”- we had learned on CC never to use that word with colleges FA offices] ], after showing them offers from other schools. The success one might have in “negotiating” more $$ is a function of both how much the college really wants your kid , and the strength of of its FA program. In our case, Brown and Dartmouth matched each others offers. Pomona was the most generous. </p>
<p>Chicago is not know for either its FA nor for meeting other colleges FA offers. We found that to be the case[ Besides, it doesn’t even have an engineering program]</p>
<p>"Most colleges won’t bargain. As you go up the selectivity scale, almost no colleges will. Why should they have to when they’re already rejecting the huge majority of their well-qualified applicants?
Where on earth did you get this idea? Have you actually had any experience with this?
The other posters, including myself, have first hand knowledge that is can be done.<br>
Once a student HAS been accepted, the shoe is often on the other foot. The college HAS shown that they DO want THAT student and will often meet other peer college FA offers, IF the request is handled carefully- i.e as a request to “review” their FA offer.</p>
<p>Ok, great advice. Just to clear a couple things up, the schools I really would like to go to are the ones I listed.
When I said I was looking for a private California school with Engineering, I meant I was looking for a school that would fit those criteria and give me a good aid package to present to other schools. Not necessarily a school I would really desire to attend.</p>
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<p>OK…here you go. If you get a top need based award from Stanford, no one else is going to give a hoot about that. It will have NO negotiating power with other schools (except maybe Harvard and Yale) because other schools do not have the generous need based money that Stanford has.</p>
<p>If you got a VERY generous scholarship from say…Cal Tech…that would be nice. BUT I don’t think it would give you much “leverage” with the schools on your list. Most of them would not view Cal Tech as a “peer school” (let’s not argue that point).</p>
<p>If you got a good package from Stanford or Yale or Harvard, why wouldn’t you just attend those schools?</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you are looking for.</p>
<p>Schools that will give you enough need based aid that your family will only pay $15K per year are VERY limited in number. Schools that don’t have that kind of money are simply going to expect your family to come up with that amount or one very similar to it.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, if your offers from Stanford, Harvard and the like are similar, you should have your top school review their offer. BUT beyond that…what are you expecting?</p>
<p>Oh…and just for the record…schools will not usually care about MERIT awards from other schools…and they won’t review/negotiate need based aid based on merit awards.</p>
<p>Annasdad, a school like Loyola Maryland does NOT have deep pockets for need based financial aid. They are not in the same league as MORE competitive schools that DO have very large endowments and have the ability to review financial aid packages with accepted students.</p>
<p>I agree with you…MOST colleges do will NOT review their need based aid awards. BUT many of the MOST competitive schools WILL review packages from PEER schools and sometimes they will make adjustments in their aid packages.</p>
<p>HOWEVER no student NO STUDENT should be seeking financial aid packages from schools with the notion that it’s going to be something they can use to leverage an increase in aid. This appears to be what the OP wants to do. My advice…don’t plan on it. Instead look for schools that are within your financial criteria either because you can afford them OR because you have the stats for guaranteed MERIT aid.</p>
<p>Believe what you want to believe. Your choice.</p>