Plus, the name: Stony Brook sounds so cool. Whenever I hear the name it makes me want to go to there…
Actually the statistics bear it out. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/10/07/sat-scores-and-income-inequality-how-wealthier-kids-rank-higher/
I’m not against loans for this student, because this student has a nice safety net should she find herself unemployed (i.e., parents who can pay them off in one fell swoop).
I don’t really understand the criticisms of the daughter’s SAT scores. Yes, she’s had far more benefits than most; she supposedly prepped; she took the ACT and SAT twice. She is now a senior and it is nearly October. She is not going to bring those scores up enough to make a huge difference, so just focus on the apps now.
BTW, OP says she scored in the low-to-mid 600’s in math and reading. That’s about 80th - 85th percentile nationally on the SAT. In what world is that such a terrible score that she must take the test a third time? I get it - it’s not going to make her the number one pick in a top-50 school, but geez, have some perspective.
This is my first thread on CC. This website is quite good and there is a great deal of information to be had - thank you very much for that. Are all threads this long? 
I seem to be behind in answering question and giving responses. I will restate where I think we are and why I think why I do -
Although I love my daughter very much, paying as much as I can to provide her the very best education from a college that she can get into IS NOT a good idea. I mean, it’s $65k / year today sticker prices. In several year it may be $100k / year. Should I go broke sending her to school? Think ROI. Consider the following scenarios -
[1] Pay $25k per year at a state university - no money award. ($100k total) Daughter gets job with starting pay $60k. Great - mission accomplished!
[2] Pay $60k per year at private university - no money award. ($240k total) Daughter gets job with starting pay $60k. Great! Mission accomplished.
I see a $140k difference - I am not rich (it’s all relative). That is a great deal of money for no change in final outcome. Am I missing something?
It’s not a matter of taking out loans. Its a matter of spending too much money - I am starting to understand why the US is in the financial state of affair that it is in. I get your points - don’t you get mine?
That said, I want to address what she may be missing when attending $25k state colleges. It is small class sizes and possibly professors who inspire you and give a hoot. Now I am not willing to pay $140k for this BUT I am willing to look around to see what is available to more closely get to this situation.
There have been comments on why someone who could possibly afford (it isn’t clear what “afford” actually means) to pay full tuition doesn’t do so. Well, I don’t want to waste that money - make sense? I’d rather give it to her for a down payment on a home or keep it for my retirement or some combination of both.
BTW, I can do math quite well … thank you. This is why I have the opinion I do. I don’t really like the snide remarks and condescending tones of some of the posters but most of you are quite helpful.
OP- if you had posted the following:
Here are my D’s stats. She wants to study bio. We are prepared to pay 25K per year, would prefer no loans, D prefers rural to urban. What colleges can you suggest that work with our budget?
you’d be inundated with helpful suggestions and no snark.
But that’s not what you posted. You’ve asserted that you could be full pay but don’t want to be (that is, of course, your prerogative). You implied that being poor is really wonderful and folks here have pointed out that if you love poverty so much, you could easily embrace it-- tomorrow- by giving away all your money. You’ve implied that folks who are trying to help you sort out merit aid are bumpkins for not realizing that your D is beyond wonderful (which I’m sure she is- but merit awards aren’t given out for being wonderful, they’re given out for having academic stats at the top of a college’s academic pool). You’ve implied that people who pay full freight are too stupid to calculate ROI which is offensive. I was full pay- my kids took advantage of some incredible opportunities at their universities-- and guess what- could have easily paid back the loans which they didn’t take based on their starting and current salaries. You’ve suggested that some of the posters here just don’t understand what a phenomenal “catch” your D is in the academic sweepstakes because of her leadership role in her EC’s and how much her teachers love her, and I think posters have been remarkably restrained in trying to teach you that being class president and a bunch of other activities isn’t going to make the cash register ring the way you need it to at the colleges your D is interested in without an uptick in her SAT scores.
That’s why you’re getting snide remarks. If you’d just asked for a list of colleges where your D could pay 25K and emerge with a BS in biology you’d have been spared the commentary.
Between options 1 and 2, there’s a vast grey area. If your D’s choices were between option 1 ($100k total, no small classes) and option 1.5 ($170k total, lots of small classes), would you still choose option 1? Is there a point where the increase in cost would be worth it for access to small classes and personal attention from professors?
Some kids are dandelions, and will bloom well wherever planted. Some kids HAVE to be dandelions, because they can only afford to go to a nearby school that has large classes. And some kids will do better in a nice loamy soil. You know your D. If you feel that she is a dandelion who will do fine at Rutgers or TCNJ, that will be fine. If OTOH you feel that she would benefit from being at a small school, then you the parental billpayer get to decide how much that’s worth.
Let me try an analogy:
A car: you could buy a new Toyota or a beat up Toyota with 100k miles on it, or a new BMW.
Obviously then you have 3 cars that take you from point A to point B.
The cheapest is the oldie, then the Toyota, then the Beemer.
Which do you buy? ROI? You might go with the cheapest, but you probably also want reliability and safety. Perhaps gas mileage too. So you may sacrifice some ROI for that and go with the new Toyota.
Or you may also want leather seats and better handling? A better experience? So maybe you sacrifice ROI for that.
What I am getting at is that ROI is not the main measure. Frankly, a bright kid can go to CC and do very well getting that $60k salary. What you are dismissing as “name brand” may not be that at all. It may just be more bells and whistles. And maybe some of them are important enough to sacrifice ROI for, and some not.
If the experience addition of brand name X is pools and fancy dorms, I’m guessing that’s not worth it to you. But if it is safety, undergrad teaching and a supportive environment, then maybe yes?
If your D would not go to a NJ state U, then perhaps that price is not a valid starting point?
Yes. You’re taking it as a given that she can expect a starting salary of $60k.
Unless she’s going to graduate in CS, engineering or finance, $60k is unlikely (scroll down to the table at the bottom of the article):
An undergraduate bio degree is an earnings dud. To leverage a higher salary, it requires grad school or professional school (i.e. med school, bz school, law school, dentistry school)
This is true but my goal is to make her re-decide her major for just the reason you state…
So YOU want her to be a CEO, but she is interested in Bio…
I never said I wanted her to be a CEO. I said she has the capability of being one…
You also started by slamming your state flagship, likely her most “brand name” option given your price/loan restrictions and stats. Same old story… poster who wants caviar on a fish n’ chips budget.
OP- good luck, you’re going to need it.
What? The cavier is priced too high and many people are falling for this and much money is being wasted. Please see post #247. The one thing I would ask you to do is to “think”. You are being deceived by the public if you think it is actually worth $60k per year for any college. Like I said I now know why the nation is in so much debt… I am simply trying to find a way to get a better school for less money - am I alone?
I do agree with OP about impersonal atmosphere at Rutgers (as opposed to caring whether some people are attending football games or whatever) … but you get what you pay for … less money, more students … less individual attention by faculty or staff (state employees in this case). Before you rush off to some OOS public dream school, make sure they aren’t the same thing coated in some southern sugar “I wish I could enroll you in that class honey, but it is full, and no I just don’t know when you can take that specialized lab class again” or “I wish I could provide you some more interesting lab work or more help with that assignment, but I just can’t … go talk to that non-english speaking TA”. NJ people are blunt when they aren’t giving you what you want or even what you need.
Or you actually PAY for the perks of a private school, yes, there are many and what ROI on that truly depends on whether your child needs it, makes the most of it, and maybe just whether you’d rather buy her a new car.
NJ has not opted to just give Rutgers huge chunks of cash and so Rutgers is a bit more of a rough edge experience and doesn’t have all the perks of other state schools. And NJ people hate it, so this is just no surprise.
I don’t personally support any program that would hand you any money or discount beyond the NJ options, and I do support some less fortunate people being offered opportunities (and most of them are better on paper than your D).
I’m afraid she hasn’t made the most of HS, so the merit opportunities at a top 50 college just aren’t there, even top 100 seems a bit of a stretch for merit. 16% class rank isn’t good enough, 1250 M+CR not good enough, etc.
You can choose a much lower ranked school than Rutgers or TCNJ, some of which are truly funny, like Montclair, because they have some points you like better or are smaller or aren’t as embarrassing to admit to your neighbors, but the school will not be “better” in either quality or “name” or education or potential job prospects.
@HRSMom It’s funny that you used buying a car as an analogy . That’s exactly what I thought. OPs approach to merit opportunities reminded me
of someone attempting to negotiate a car deal. He may have some negotiating capacity at a private institution, but it’s been my understanding negotiations with an OOS public are extremely limited and statistics driven.
@PickOne1 Your comments regarding sugar coated southern speak are both condescending and inappropriate . Maybe that’s why quite a few NJ residents are so eager to leave. Just out of curiosity, have you ever visited the school you have such a negative opinion of?
Ok. so we all presumed she was doing bio, but wanted to end up in business. not the case, which makes more sense! I’m pushing Miami. Sounds like a good ROI even tho it may go over budget a bit. You get a lot for it tho! good luck!
I went to Rutgers, and should have skipped the southern speak, I do apologize If Clemson or other big public schools can really pull off a more a customized experience, that is great. I don’t hear Maryland people complain about UMd like this at all. Maybe it is better, maybe the southern charm does actually help.
I don’t have any negative opinion of any public flagship university or even 2nd tier schools, but they just can’t provide all the resources that rich private schools can. If you are just looking for a “deal” that gives you a perfect experience for less than half the price, that could be a big disappointment.
Most people at a public flagship are glad that they are there and feel they get a terrific ROI.
In defense of NJ, what I am trying to say, is that NJ people are rather blunt and just do not sugar coat anything, so they can be perceived as being really not helpful. They are nice people … but that might not make say the registration office experience at Rutgers particularly enjoyable.
Miami of Ohio is a very respected degree, a really pretty campus, alumni who swear it was the happiest years of their lives, and a decent price. Can OP’s D get into this school though?