I think this is such an important point. There are many jobs that will offer a decent quality of life but aren’t going to make you wealthy. Often these jobs are in the non-profit sector, the arts, education etc. Some of these people are my clients and they all like their jobs much, much more than many of my upper middle class friends. They still have homes, take the occasional vacation and send their kids to college. The underlying presumption on this thread is that if you aren’t going to be upper middle class/wealthy then don’t bother with college; or that a life outside those environs isn’t worth living. I just really disagree with that. My own kiddo is probably going to end up in the humanities (or maybe political sci) - it is what interests him and what he is good at. He isn’t interested in STEM and who am I to force him into it?
First, because to apply to jobs at companies today, even when you go to events - he did car club - sponsored by GM and you have a contact - you still have to apply through the portal. But you do follow up with a note to that person - hey I applied to this, this and that job.
Second, once you’re on a portal and then they send you weekly emails, you can easily apply as your file is there.
In the corporate world, cover letters to people and all have been replaced by AI seeking key words - why most say to change your resume each time to match the job. In fact, many applications today ask for a list of skills. Yes, some allow you to attach a cover letter. When I’m given resumes, HR only gives me the profile we generate, not the resume or cover letter our system allows people to attach.
Finding a job today, I’ve learned, is no different than when I graduated. It’s a #s game.
Yes, it’s still who you know and they can help you. But not everyone knows someone. And while I’m sure we’d all love to help the OP and hire her or others on here ourselves, it doesn’t work like that.
So my son’s strategy was sound - and maybe not the most efficient - but he had no shortage of interviews, hirevues, and the like. He would get turned down and quickly and of course I wanted to mock interview him and he said he wasn’t interested and blah blah. Then I said go to the career center - get guidance - perhaps you’re missing stuff.
This year - same # of interviews and hirevues - but definitely getting more a pull to later rounds which is likely due to a summer of experience.
So - he is focused on two industries and companies within those or peripherally. So he’s not just applying to every job on indeed. He’s automotive and aerospace.
But yes, with larger employers, even those where you have ins through presentations, networking and the like - in 2021, due to fear of lawsuits, discrimination and otherwise, everyone has to apply through the portals…even the CEOs kid.
Edit. Btw this is how most engineering students are finding jobs at his school. Sure they have job fairs, now mainly virtual, but either conflict with can’t miss classes (his words…I’d go) or are organizations of no interest to him. He did one interview through it this year. Even the career center tells the kids to get on the portals but also use LinkedIn to find alumni etc to reach out to for a ‘boost’
Thanks
He isn’t interested in STEM and who am I to force him into it?
To me, this is important. Everything today is quantitative - even the social sciences. Marketing, which used to be fluff when I got my MBA, is very quant heavy today.
But you can’t force someone to be who they aren’t. If I had to major in chem or engineering or whatever instead of the “fluff” majors in journalism and history that I got, I probably wouldn’t have made it through the first year of college.
So even if you say - it’d be great to be a CS or engineering or other STEM - you still have to be able to learn it, handle it, and pass it. For me, I’d be a big fail. I imagine for many kids who aren’t studying those subjects as well.
Some have a natural inclination and love for an area - and that works - whether it’s nutrition, physics, or classics. And if they did the opposite, they’d muddle through or worse (I would be the worse).
I agree with this. Don’t try to be what you’re not. It won’t lead to a happy and productive life. I know this thread is about “college degree payoff”, presumably financial payoff. But there’s more to a college education than financial payoff. Thankfully, there’re still students who pursue their interests or even passions in college and some of them will succeed, even spectacularly, but not necessarily financially. Intellectual success doesn’t always translate into financial success. Their new discoveries or new ideas may be too abstract, too distant, or too impractical at the present to be turned into a commercial product or service we’re all willing to pay for, but those ideas or discoveries are what advance our civilization and create wealth for our society.
Our kids are only at the internship part of their job searches. When S19 applies for summer internships (even at large companies), there are essays to be written on the apps. They can take a very long time to do well.
Maybe it’s different when you’re applying for jobs after college. Ideally, one of his internships turns into a job offer after graduation so he’s not applying for hundreds of jobs during his senior year. He has spoken to some seniors and young alums and it doesn’t sound like anyone did the hundreds of apps thing. Maybe it’s more popular for engineering jobs…but that doesn’t help the OP.
My D hasn’t had to write any essays for a job application. That might be a function of companies coming to campus though and having face to face time with the recruiters.
I agree with you that sending out hundreds of resumes isn’t a thing at D’s school either. She talked to only three companies during her freshman year and got an offer. Following year, she talked to 8 companies, got 2 offers, and had to withdraw from consideration from a third, because she accepted one of the initial two.
That seems to be more of the norm for her her peers at her school.
D1 applied to finance (banking) jobs 10 years ago (this may be dated, but maybe not). She went to a T20 school. Their career center invited certain firms to recruit on campus (maybe remotely now). She had to go to training before she was allowed to apply. She applied in Nov and was notified which companies wanted to interview her in Jan. When she was home for the holidays, some alums from those firms organized meet and greet parties in NYC for them to meet the recruiters and also get to know the firm better. I know at that time not all schools’ alums did that. Those meetings gave D1 a leg up when she actually went to on those interviews. Some of those alums when they were on campus took them out for drinks/dinners. When it came to final selection of candidates, her school’s alums “fought” for their school’s students. My kid’s school career center also had very strong guidelines on what kind of pressure those firms could put on their students to accept jobs. Those firms couldn’t invite students off campus for wine and dine until after certain date and they had similar deadline for accepting offers.
I don’t think it is number of alumni that matters, it is how strong the network is.
Yes, for those with no prior connections (hooks), all desirable jobs should be considered reaches, to use college admission terminology.
He’s had to do some short answer. Not many but some ask. Y do u want this job. Or which classes are relevant. He has his answers pre written and just tweaks. But nothing is more than a couple sentences. He’s not been asked for essays.
One of his offers is from his company last summer. They told him at the end they want him back. And it turns out they do.
He’s at a different factory next summer to learn a new piece of the business. If it’s a good summer, he’ll be locked up except many companies aren’t organized to do that right away. I’m fact he just got a lot of notes from GM. they’ve withdrawn a boatload of postings for next summer.
I had a former boss who worked abroad. Always a good sign for upward mobility. His term was up. He came back. They didn’t even have a slot for him. Put him in a low level job as a holding place.
Big companies, which is where I work and my son wants to…they are beauracratic, often inefficient, and process, not people driven.
So in theory, if he wants to and this summer works out, he’ll get an offer. The auto industry is short of talent while lessening the bench even more with buyouts of older workers.
Getting an internship is about a solid and differentiated experience for 12 weeks. Getting a job is about finding the ‘right’ role so I would agree would be a more focused search.
There are kids who don’t work in summer…my sons gf is taking classes. I suspect those are the kids who will struggle to land on their feet.
What level, size of school. My experience is big public. 6500 in the general major.
D is at Purdue.
Note that the definition of “financial success” can vary. For some people, “financial success” may mean, at the bare minimum, reaching the income level of the “upper middle class” or “semi-rich” (and even then, some with incomes in that level complain about being squeezed by the “high cost of living”, despite incomes double or more the median in their areas). For others, “financial success” may be satisfied at a much lower income level that is plenty for them to live on and save for longer term goals.
Those in the latter group have more freedom to choose their college major and career directions than those in the former group who have higher self-imposed minimums on what they “need” for “financial success”.
I’d agree with that. If you can only envision (and accept) an upper middle class/wealthy lifestyle with all the accoutrements, job hunting will be much more challenging. Even with the “right” kind of major, the kind of jobs that will get you there aren’t that numerous.
The two I know of that had essays were Raytheon and Ball Aerospace. NASA internships (while government jobs and not corporate) also have very long and involved apps with multiple essays that cannot be cut and paste from other apps. Any app that asks why you want to work for the company will require research and time to write well.
I guess maybe my point is that one has to have a parallel project while going to college. Yes, you are going to class and participating on campus but you can also be building your resume too and should be spending time on that each year as well as going to college.
100% agree.
They have the best job fairs supposedly and automotive wins there.
My son did an engineering camp there, loved it, applied, got in with 10k and I thought he was going to Boiler Up.
Then he saw the housing situation, that it was farther from mom, and that at Bama the facilities are state of the art and he can have his own dorm room and bathroom for only two. At Purdue, they over enroll, house many off campus and that scared him.
Bama is still in auto country…Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc vs GM, Ford, Stellamtis, suppliers galore and he did get an interview at Ford, which no showed him and didn’t return phone calls, emails or a linked in message. They used third party scheduling software.
But anyway his experience, for the jobs he wants, has been different. I will say tho, my son doesn’t optimize handshake or the career center as much as I’d like him to short of resume approval. As he says engineering is hard, there’s no time.
Perhaps different things work for different folks.
But even the Harvard MBAs my former employers hired…still had to apply via a posting. I think that process has progressed more these past few years.
I wish I could say boiler up instead of roll tide but that was one of his first adult decisions and we went with it.
Odd. He did a lot of Raytheon. No essays but he said they have a lot of conflict of interest questions. Like do u work for the govt. have u ever worked for and they name like 20 people. Do u have clearances
He steered clear of Nasa and other lab type stuff. They want LORs and he’s not going to do that as he barely knows his profs. Just not in his comfort zone.
I wish your student luck in finding a role.
For the kids that don’t, name your local retail or dining establishment and that’s $15+ an hr.
In the 2020 summer of covid my son detailed cars 4 days, 25-30 hrs a week. Depending on tip made $18-40 an hr. So even if one is too early for companies to hire one can, given the current labor market, still gain experience, build a resume, and sock away a few bucks.
My H has had great experiences hiring Bama engineering grads. They have a solid program!
Purdue told freshman to go to the career center during orientation week before classes started to get working on resume and interview skills. They were also told to come to campus with an interview suit (or to borrow one from the lending closet) and go to the first career fair in September to start practicing those networking skills.
At the President’s freshman convocation he told them to join one club for fun, and one that will further their career goals.
Purdue is very career readiness focused. That’s a turn off to some students but exactly what my D was looking for.
Ancient boomer again- we’re talking about a generation that consults Yelp before buying a sandwich or a bottle of shampoo. And yet they find it onerous to read the instructions online before applying for a job? If they want a cover letter- send one. If they say 'Don’t send a cover letter" then don’t send one. They want a short essay on why do you want to work here? Send it.
Yes, I’m old. But the notion that this stuff is so hard- when so much is online, for a generation of digital natives- jeez.
On the subject of how much money is enough money- I’ve known enough people who’ve gone broke on a low 7 figure salary to have learned that for some people- it’s never enough. Why buy a four bedroom house when there’s a 5 bedroom for sale? Why have your kids learn to play tennis at the Y when you can join a country club? Why rent a cottage at Cape Cod or Virginia Beach for your summer vacation when you can rent a villa with a couple of friends and their kids in the Seychelles or Maldives?
Keeping up with the Jones’ is always problematic even if you’re making a lot of money. There’s always someone with more and they are happy to encourage you to keep up with them- nice wines, great clothes, fabulous vacations and nothing in the bank. So sure- tell your kids that unless they are making 500K by the time they are 40 they are losers. See how much inner peace that brings them!
I don’t think its limited to i-banking. There are other jobs that pay very well (at start and beyond). But to justify those comp levels, you either need to bring a lot of skill to the table (and skill that is not in big suppply) or work crazy, stupid hours (and oftentimes both). Jobs that pay very well that are 9-5, with no nights/holidays and at totally comfortable pace at all times are unicorns.
I have found it to be a challenge for many younger people to understand that. Not everyone but many. They want the $$ but not the stuff that goes with it to justify that money. I do too. But its just not realistic.