Will UA be a "public Ivy" school?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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<p>*There is no degree requirement for acting, art, design, dance, photography etc.
Plenty of musicians and artists make a living without ever attending college.
But getting a BA should be more than vo-tec training, the same for all other degrees. *</p>

<p>Well, they have to do the Core Curriculum and do their major req’ts. But, each major doesn’t require the same stats. The artsy types often get graded on their performance and creativity…it’s a different kind of rubric for grading. It’s often subjective. </p>

<p>Bama will likely get to the point where a certain ACT is needed to start in engineering like some schools have.</p>

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<p>I do know that at least for music performance, you must be admitted to UA before auditioning, so the same university-wide minimum grades apply.
I can definitely see a required ACT for the Engineering college. Again would be interesting to see stats of ACT vs. retention rate in the various UA colleges.</p>

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<p>“I can definitely see a required ACT for the Engineering college”
To accomplish what?</p>

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<p>I’ve been holding back as I read this thread but now I must chime in. </p>

<p>As a mom of two wonderful kids who are completely different students I can understand many of the arguments on this thread, but I don’t necessarily agree with them.</p>

<p>My DS scored slightly above what the UA admissions page states should make a successful student. He would have scored much higher if not for his math phobia. His English and reading scores were great, his science score was acceptable, and his math was horrendous.</p>

<p>He wants to major in advertising and public relations, not a STEM major. He’s creative, charming, has fantastic social skills, and despite his math deficit is a bright young man. He’s perfectly capable of succeeding in college even though he didn’t score in the ninetieth percentile of the ACT test. </p>

<p>If my DS was the same type of student as my DD (high scores on ACT and GPA) I might not have the same perspective, in fact, I might think that students who fall below a 25 on the ACT should stick to community college. Fortunately, I know that’s a flawed way to look at students who may not be strong in certain subjects but excel in others. </p>

<p>Kudos to all of the high stat students and parents of students on this board, you should be proud. But, please keep in mind that there are many average students who do just fine in college. They might even be your boss one day. Food for thought. :)</p>

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<p>They might even be your boss one day. Food for thought.</p>

<p>Amen! :)</p>

<p>And BTW, as a math-phobic right-brained person working in advertising, I can totally relate to your DS.</p>

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<p>*“I can definitely see a required ACT for the Engineering college”</p>

<p>===========================
To accomplish what? *</p>

<p>To eliminate some of the major changing that goes on in Engineering. It’s really hard for someone who has an ACT under a certain number to stay in the program. </p>

<p>Engineering is a bit like being pre-med. After the the first 2 semesters, many realize that they don’t have what it takes to get thru the Math, Gen Chem, Physics, etc. </p>

<p>And…if you’re not Calc-ready as an incoming frosh, you’re already behind.</p>

<p>Most or all engineering majors have to take Cal I, Cal II, Cal II and Dif EQ and/or other upper division math. It’s not being realistic to think that just anyone can pass those classes.</p>

<p>My SIL asked an Engineering prof if there were engineering students with low test scores in his classes. His answer? “Not by the time they get to my classes.” </p>

<p>There’s a reason why the College of Engineering offers scholarship money to those with ACT 27 or SAT 1210 or higher. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be a “back door” in…there should be. I have a nephew who wasn’t accepted into the CoE at UCLA…but he will use some kind of " back door option" to get in later with some kind of demonstrated requirements. </p>

<p>this shouldn’t be too shocking. The college of Nursing doesn’t admit students until they’ve proven themselves and are admitted as juniors. The B-school does something similar.</p>

<p>*But, please keep in mind that there are many average students who do just fine in college. *</p>

<p>Very true…like that kid I described earlier with the family and all the restaurants…he has a great business mind.</p>

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<p>^^ well said lovmykids2…each kid can be different, each test score different, but their ability to do well may not be…leave room for the "average " kid at your flagship STATE university…
sure UA can do it, but then Auburn might, then UAB then what’s left… just remember average/instate or even oos kids can do well.</p>

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<p>Sea_Tide: loved the Langston Hughes quote. “Life for most everyone ain’t no crystal stair, but that shouldn’t stop anyone from climbin’.”</p>

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<p>*leave room for the "average " kid at your flagship STATE university…
sure UA can do it, but then Auburn might, then UAB then what’s left… just remember average/instate or even oos kids can do well. *</p>

<p>I really don’t think there is much to worry about. The state schools can fit the instate kids.</p>

<p>And… Most kids aren’t even going to go to one of a state’s top publics if doing so requires housing… simply because of cost. </p>

<p>The cost of Room and Board is what often drives where students will attend. Most families simply don’t have $80k+ to spend on each child’s education - especially if they have 2 or more kids. That’s why most kids (in every state) go to a commutable school. </p>

<p>Many families can scrape together the cost for their local college/univ…thru family funds, a student loan, and/or student income.</p>

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<p>gojack -
didn’t mean to imply any level of (what’s the word?) “specialness” for the Engineering majors vs. any others, but that the level of difficulty in certain areas is without dispute higher than in some others. It doesn’t mean that students shouldn’t be allowed to follow their dream, but quite honestly at a certain level no amount of hard work will be enough for some people to get the material. It may be anecdotal but my DS reports the attrition rate within his CS program is stunning. I think it’s doing some students a disservice to let them enter a program they have very little chance of finishing. As Mom2K said, it’s done in nursing and B-school, why not engineering?</p>

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<p>It may be anecdotal but my DS reports the attrition rate within his CS program is stunning.</p>

<p>It’s not anecdotal and it’s not just in CS and it’s not just at Bama. It’s everywhere. </p>

<p>There is a significant “major change” in the STEM majors after the first 1-4 semesters at nearly every college campus in the nation. </p>

<p>If you go over to the Pre-med forum here, even those attending elite schools report that over half of the "pre-med students " aren’t “pre-med” after about 1-4 semesters. And, then another large group falls off after MCAT is taken. Some schools are limiting who can be “pre-med” and have access to “pre-med advising” (until the student proves himself).</p>

<p>My younger son who is both ChemE and Pre-med sees the attrition in both areas. </p>

<p>In pre-med it’s even more stunning simply because it’s not enough just to pass or get a B…those kids know that they need a 3.7+ in order to have a good chance to get accepted to med school. And, B’s in the BCMP GPA are not wanted!!! (Bio, Chem, Math, Physics - a separate BCMP GPA is also determined.) </p>

<p>It’s no secret that across this nation, people have noticed that K-12 education in the sciences and in math is lacking. It’s very hard to get and keep good math and science K-12 teachers because many math/science people can make more money doing other things. So, we shouldn’t be surprised at the attrition rates. </p>

<p>Again…no one is saying that there shouldn’t be a “back door” in…either by starting at a CC and then transferring or by taking summer classes at a CC to get “up to speed.” Or…by taking a 5th year to graduate because the student couldn’t start at the sequence…</p>

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<p>This thread has moved slightly off this topic but I thought I would chime in and add something about the fear of excluding in-state students. </p>

<p>I was rejected from UT-Austin this year with a 1410 CR+M and no GPA/rank as in instate student from a non-ranking private high school. I am certain there were kids with higher test scores in public and private schools who also got rejected. It sucks to get rejected from your state-flagship when you have SAT scores in the top quartile. But it is also great to have the opportunity, as an in-state, student to attend such a great university at such a great price.</p>

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<p>A’s in math too for pre-med? I thought S could do the science, but not sure about A’s in Math. Wonder if he is better off taking cal 1 next summer, perhaps he would do better by taking it by itself. Is there any kind of requirement it must be taken during the year?
I was going to say at CC, but I don’t think they teach cal in this area.</p>

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<p>Welcome to Bama.</p>

<p>States with large populations have to deal with those kinds of issues. I really can’t foresee a time when Bama will be rejecting instate kids with 1400+ M+CR SATs.</p>

<p>The top Calif UCs are unpredictable, too.</p>

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<p>M2CK
"To eliminate some of the major changing that goes on in Engineering. It’s really hard for someone who has an ACT under a certain number to stay in the program. "</p>

<p>I went through college after doing 4 yrs in the Army, so I was a little more mature and observant… in my dorm during my freshman/sophomore yrs maybe half the boys were engineering students. at least half either failed or switched majors, it was definitely not the smart ones (high ACT’s) that did the best, it was the hardest working. One guy, who really struggled through 4 yrs that turned into 5 yrs, but would not quit, he went on to get a MS in ME from Purdue, and has done very well for himself. ACT does not correlate with drive and perseverance. A lot of times the kids who are really bright and never really had to study hard - wash out because they lack the study skills needed.</p>

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<p>gojack, that is sooooo true. My husband’s all-time best student at the Louisiana School for Math, Science, and the Arts was not the one with the very highest stats but the one who studied her derriere off. This is she today:</p>

<p>[Angela</a> Petit](<a href=“http://www.isu.edu/english/Faculty/AngelaPetit.html]Angela”>http://www.isu.edu/english/Faculty/AngelaPetit.html)</p>

<p>I’d say she’s done OK for herself!</p>

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<p>*A’s in math too for pre-med? I thought S could do the science, but not sure about A’s in Math. Wonder if he is better off taking cal 1 next summer, perhaps he would do better by taking it by itself. Is there any kind of requirement it must be taken during the year?
I was going to say at CC, but I don’t think they teach cal in this area. *</p>

<p>For pre-med there are two GPAs…the BCMP GPA (aka “science GPA” which consists of all bio, chem, math, and physics grades) and the cum GPA (which consists of all classes).</p>

<p>A “B” in Cal isn’t fatal. If he has enough BCMP grades, the one B will be “watered down”. He should take Stats as well. </p>

<p>If a student has A’s in all bio, chem and physics classes…and stats…which would be at least 35 credits…and gets a B in Cal I, then that’s…</p>

<p>35 x 4.0 = 140
4 x 3.0 = 12</p>

<p>152 / 39 = 3.897 (which is a very high BCMP GPA)</p>

<p>this could be further raised if he gets an A in pre-cal or an A in an additional BCMP class such as Cell Bio, Genetics, BioChem, etc. </p>

<p>Do not take pre-med pre-reqs at a CC.</p>