Hahaha! We trickle charged our EV for 4.5 years, for two of those years there was no Supercharger nearby (then Musk foolishly installed one by our favorite pub). Finally, we got a dedicated charger installed. I can see how lack of easy charging options could be a hassle for folks living in high density areas. Just saw that Seattle City Light sent a survey asking folks for their input on where to put parking strip chargers. Of course kid who lives in the city responded! 
BTW, in her condo building, someone managed to get a (wimpy) personal EV charger installed by their deeded parking spot in the garage (tied into their panel in the condo).
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And I have to thank good CC folks like @BunsenBurner for all their advice over the last year or so on charging.
It’s MUCH easier than you think, even at 110 v.
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I was quoting the article you cited. So why did you cite it if you don’t find it’s conclusions credible? Also, the most recent data was 3 years old. And growth has been exponential.
Most people don’t do a lot of long trips in their car and if they do, not often. The subset gets even smaller if they only have one vehicle. Someone who frequently drives over 250 miles at a time without stops probably shouldn’t make an EV their only car. Someone who lives in an apartment without easy access to a 220v power supply probably shouldn’t make an EV their only car. I personally wouldn’t consider an EV if I had only one car because I do occasionally do longer trips and am impatient when I do. But 95% of my driving would benefit from one.
No one said it was right for everyone yet. And the advancements in the next 13 years are likely to be massive.
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Agree 100%.
sweet, Thanks for reiterating my point about charging times being too long (20 minutes) compared to filling a gas vehicle.
It’s called planning ahead. It’s NEVER been a problem for us.
ETA: Another benefit of EVs is the far lower maintenance costs and the greater reliability. I am furiously knocking on wood as I write this, but I understand that cars like Tesla etc have next to no maintenance requirements or problems. I am not sure the same can be said for ICE vehicles, but I am happy to stand corrected.
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I covered this in the post I asked you to re-read, but I’ll say it again. I discussed CA because others in the thread were already talking about it. Also, CA is a unique case because it is going to all renewables and plans to outlaw ICE vehicles.
This is starting to feel like like a cross examination where the attorney asks the same question multiple times in the hopes of getting the witness to contradict himself.
For the record, I’m in MI, not MS. I think the potable water reference was about Flint.
My specific point is that taking this week as an example of potential weaknesses in the CA grid is inappropriate. We’ve had some of the highest temperatures EVER recorded, and a recommendation from the state to conserve energy for a 5 hour period (4pm-9pm) during this extraordinary heatwave is not the same as saying the CA grid is weak. There is nothing hypocritical about CA’s move towards non-ICE vehicles.
Indeed, as pointed out earlier, it was the auto manufacturers themselves that have initiated this move away from ICE. Major sales areas like CA have, no doubt, spurred that on.
These are points that you seem to neglect in your posts.
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My bad I used that “route” as an example… should have looked at the charging station map. My point was only that in Texas there are many destinations without much infrastructure for EV cars.
If you add up all the minutes the average ICE vehicle driver spends at gas stations and then compare to all the minutes the average EV driver spends at public chargers I think you may find ICE drivers spend more of their time at gas stations than EV drivers do at public chargers.
Most folks who drive an EV plug in their car at home and rarely go to a public charger. We start off every morning with a full battery and only need to use a public charger on a road trip. A 15 or 20 minute stop to charge once every 2 or 3 months on a trip is not a big deal. Nice to get out and stretch your legs and use the bathroom and get a drink. Small price to pay for an overall much better driving experience in every way — performance, handling, maintenance, not to mention zero emissions.
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Well the car may have zero emissions but the power grid that charges it still uses fossil fuels. Environmental impact is yet to be determined especially once the concentration of EV vehicles on the road are more than 1-4%.
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myname, This week is hardly an isolated case of the CA grid coming up short. In July, 2021 the state asked residents to curb electricity use during peak hours. In 2020 the managers of CA’s grid ordered rolling blackouts. In October 2019 CA utilities ordered preemptive shutoffs that cut power to 3m customers to prevent wildfires caused by poorly maintained electrical infrastructure. In July, 2018 CA utilities issued FLEX alerts asking residents to reduce electricity use during peak hours. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Regarding auto makers going to EV, the driver there might be government regulations at the state and federal level - cafe standards, bans on ICE vehicles, etc. - as much as market demand.
Sweet, I agree with your premise for local errands or commutes. My wife only uses her Tesla for local driving and she always charges at home. We do not, however, use the Tesla for longer trips because of the charging issue.
I also agree, that with planning and patience, one can use an EV - especially a Tesla with the company’s network of charging stations - for extended trips. That is what my wife did when she was periodically driving from SE MI to Chicago for work. She would start with a full charge and stop to eat breakfast at a Panera while her car charged. Unfortunately, Tesla arbitrarily designated her preferred charging station in western MI a “high use” station (even though she never saw more than two of 10 chargers used), reducing its charging rate and only allowing her to charge to 80%. What started as a trip with one or two 20 minute charge stops became an ordeal with two or three charge stops of 30-40 minutes. And, of course, she made these trips alone. Maintaining this travel schedule with children (at least my children) would be untenable.
I also agree with your description of the EV driving experience. We love driving my wife’s Tesla; it handles well and goes like a bat outta hell. I have to qualify your “zero emissions” claim though - it is zero emissions at the tailpipe. The power has to come from somewhere, and EVs just shift the emissions to the electric utility.
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California is the largest energy importer in this country.
It looks like 71%of its electricity is imported
Now I don’t want to get into a debate but in light of the fact that California generates most of its power from outside the state and a mega drought in the west, it might be a concern in the future. California generation companies own generation facilities in adjacent states.
California is a big example of NIMBY.
As far as EV’s, I think it’s great for emissions. But I wonder if California should start to think about how it’s going to generate electricity in their state.
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Please return to topic. If users want to discuss CA and its electric grids, they can start a thread on electric grids.
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several states are banning ICE vehicles : These States Are Banning Gas and Diesel-Powered Vehicles - CarEdge
As an aside, it really does not take but at most a few minutes longer to charge an EV at a supercharger. And you meet really nice people at superchargers.
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EVs can be completely off grid unlike ICE vehicles (unless you make your own biodiesel, which still pollutes). I don’t have solar or micro hydro — although we have talked about both of those — or wind. We get our electricity from a mix that includes a pretty high percentage of nuclear power and a smaller percentage of renewables. We also pay extra for a green power program.
It’s super niche but EVs are pretty popular among folks who go completely off grid. Pretty cool idea to be able to plug your car in to your own solar panels. Can’t do that with an ICE vehicle.
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I also want to underscore what @Sweetgum has said about not spending time in gas stations. In another thread that I started last year about getting a Tesla, I mentioned I had a PHEV that I NEVER plugged in. If I recall correctly, @Sweetgum, in a nice way, chided me for not plugging in my PHEV. It was sage advice.
Shortly after that, I did start plugging it in and noticed how useful that was for me (most of my daily commutes are no more than 30 miles, and I get around 25 miles on a charge, which can be regenerated to some degree). But it took around 8 hours on 110v trickle charge.
After we got our main panel upgrade this summer, I added a 60amp charging station at home. My car can charge easily in 2 hours. I rarely go to a gas station these days. Oh, and how I hate those lines at Costco gas stations! Thanks to the PHEV, it’s rare that I have to go there now.
IMO, a PHEV is a decent hedge between an EV and an ICE, especially for someone with driving habits similar to me. If you drive longer distances, you can conserve those electrical miles for city traffic situations, and you have the back-up of the hybrid engine.
Oh, and we got a solar-ready main panel. At some stage, I am going to explore generating electricity from solar. But I have to clean out our garage first, which is a task I have delayed for several years.
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I don’t have the figures on hand but I’m sure someone out there has compared the pollution caused by petroleum extraction, refining, and distribution, and driving an ICE vehicle to the pollution caused by electricity production and driving an EV.
Worth looking into if this is a concern. I’m just tied up today.