Will you buy an electric or hybrid car next?

New cars are not your friend.

“Tesla was the worst-ranked brand in the study, getting flagged in every privacy category — only the second time this happened.”

1 Like

Unrelated to the privacy issue, the Chevy Bolt is the safest small car in terms of driver deaths. Use the dropdown here to switch the category to “small”. Driver death rates by make and model

2 Likes

It is generally better to look at the primary source. Here are the detailed descriptions from Mozilla:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/

Also their summary:

Note that the two pages have different bad to worse rankings, which is explainable if you read them.

2 Likes

Agree!
My s bought a used Tesla directly from Tesla about 2 1/2 years ago precisely because he figured he’d want the newer technology in a few years, and was able to get the used Tesla for half price, and with a year warranty. And his kids have really trashed that car! :frowning:

There is a sort of elephant in the room here that I have wondered about.

Let’s suppose that someone is buying a Tesla based largely on environmental issues (I will ignore the “technology is cool” and “costs less to operate” issues, which may also matter to many of us). The tradeoff here is that an EV, even in areas where most of our electricity is generated from fossil fuels, results in the release of a LOT less CO2 per mile to operate it. However, from an environmental point of view it is a bigger hit on the environment to build the EV in the first place. This hit is worth it specifically because EVs are expected to last so long. If the EV lasts twice as long compared to, for example, my wife’s Prius, then it is okay that the EV resulted in twice as much pollution and CO2 release to build it in the first place.

So, those EVs are likely to still be working just fine 300,000 miles from now. What condition will they be in? Will the seats still be comfortable? Will the body be rusty? Will the doors still operate cleanly? Will the kids have trashed it?

I do not know.

I do know that we traded in our first Prius because it was burning oil. This would not have been an issue with a Tesla. Otherwise the first Prius was in good shape when we traded it in to get our second Prius. The seats were still comfortable. The body was not rusty. The doors were fine. If the gasoline engine could have gone another 150,000 miles, then the rest of the car most likely would have been fine (including the electric engine and battery).

I don’t think that the environmental advantage is based on the expectation that EVs will last an unrealistic period of time, but if you have any source on that, I’d be interested in seeing it. From the EPA:

Myth #2: Electric vehicles are worse for the climate than gasoline cars because of battery manufacturing.

  • FACT: The greenhouse gas emissions associated with an electric vehicle over its lifetime are typically lower than those from an average gasoline-powered vehicle, even when accounting for manufacturing. Some studies have shown that making a typical EV can create more carbon pollution than making a gasoline car. This is because of the additional energy required to manufacture an EV’s battery. Still, over the lifetime of the vehicle, total GHG emissions associated with manufacturing, charging, and driving an EV are typically lower than the total GHGs associated with a gasoline car. That’s because EVs have zero tailpipe emissions and are typically responsible for significantly fewer GHGs during operation (see Myth 1 above).For example, researchers at Argonne National Laboratory estimated emissions for both a gasoline car and an EV with a 300-mile electric range. In their estimates, while GHG emissions from EV manufacturing and end-of-life are higher (shown in orange below), total GHGs for the EV are still lower than those for the gasoline car.

Bar charts showing lifecycle GHGs for an electric vehicle and a gas car

Estimates shown2 from GREET 2 2021 are intended to be illustrative only. Estimates represent model year 2020. Emissions will vary based on assumptions about the specific vehicles being compared, EV battery size and chemistry, vehicle lifetimes, and the electricity grid used to recharge the EV, among other factors.

Above, the blue bar represents emissions associated with the battery. The orange bars encompass the rest of the vehicle manufacturing (e.g., extracting materials, manufacturing and assembling other parts, and vehicle assembly) and end-of-life (recycling or disposal). The gray bars represent upstream emissions associated with producing gasoline or electricity (U.S. mix), and the yellow bar shows tailpipe emissions during vehicle operations.

Well, I’ve had my 2017 Chevy Bolt EV for almost 7 years and almost 100K (sitting right around 98K now). The seats are as good as they ever were (they are leather). The body is not rusty. It does have a few dings, but no rust. Doors operate just like they did when it was new. Kids did not trash it even though I had teens and pre-teens in it. The teen drivers did put a few small dings in it. We plan on driving it for another 7 years, 100K. Might replace our 2012 Chevy Volt plug in hybrid before then with a newer EV.

1 Like

Rust will almost entirely depend on the geographic area of the country, whether it was garaged or not and how much exterior plastic was used to build the car.

And rust isn’t always viewable without putting the car on a lift.

1 Like

My s’s car is a mess b/c he has an almost 6 year old and a 2 1/2 year old. They make a mess in that car and they as a family also spend a lot of weekends camping and such, so that car gets a lot of use. The car is a 2015 and, AFAIK, except for the falcon wing doors hesitating a bit at times, its been a great car. The leather is still fine but there are some shoe marks on the plastic behind the front seats

What cars have a planned lifecycle of 300k miles without major repairs? And your other questions apply equally to an ICE. If a parent allows kids to trash their car, they have a trashed car, regardless of the drivetrain. The seats are made by seat manufactures under spec. (who knows what Elon ordered up, but plenty of Teslas are still on the road after 10 years.). But the majors (Ford, GM, Stellantis, BMW, Mercedes) also make seats for their ICE machines. Why would they make a lower quality ver for their EV? Even if they do, seats are easy to replace or reupholster. Even easier to replace in an EV as they easily unbolt.

1 Like

Most of the body panels of a Chevrolet Bolt are made of aluminum.

1 Like

Seems like there should be a market for vehicles with hose-out interior options, particularly those bought by families with small children (e.g. minivans).

Maybe so, but he isn’t selling :slight_smile:

My truck has a hose out interior.

1 Like

So s it an EV or a hybrid? :crazy_face:

tehy have one, its call the Jeep. Even comes with a plug in teh floor to drain.

1 Like

It gives EV owners a nervous tic every time I drive by. :wink:

Blue FJ Cruisers can be reminders of something else that has a similar color.

Meh. Ev’s would leave they thing in the dust!

I don’t think GKUnion meant anything about speed vs EV’s. I believe GKUnion meant the gas guzzling nature of the FJ Cruiser gives EV owners nervous tics.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but FJ Cruisers have style, which almost all EV’s lack.

1 Like