Williams college or Vanderbilt

Hi
I can’t decide between applying to Williams or Vandy ED.
I know they’re completely different, one is a small LAC in a rural location and the other is a large urban university. However, I wouldn’t mind either location/size.

I’m looking at majoring in psychology and both have amazing psych departments. The only thing is that Vandy offers a business minor as well as the fact that I can take music courses at the Blair school of music.

Williams is more academic in nature but is obviously extremely well known and I loved the atmosphere and vibe I got from the campus when I visited. (Was not able to visit Vandy)

I know I can do Williams ed1 and Vandy ed2 but Vandy is supposed to have one of the lowest ed2 acceptance rates

Any thoughts?

Williams

Being well known should not be too high on your list comparing the two, but in reality Vanderbilt is known to far, far more people than Williams. There are a dozen or more colleges and universities around the country with “William” or “Williams” in the name, so the vast majority of people out there will not know Williams College from Bill’s College even if they have heard of ANY college with “William” in the title. Vanderbilt is in the SEC, has nationally ranked sports teams in a few sports, and has about 4,000 persons earn undergraduate and graduate degrees each year to appx 500 for Williams.

Williams has an amazingly strong alumni network. This is me personally speaking, but I’d choose Williams in a heartbeat.

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Not convinced that it is a great idea to submit a binding ED application to a school that you’ve never visited.

You have checked affordability at both?

I love Williams, I went there, and my son is going there. But I need to start with this comment:

My husband is a clinical psychologist, and we are disappointed that Williams offers ZERO courses in what we consider the most interesting subfield of psychology, Personality. And not a single course description references psychodynamic approaches, not even Freud! (To find a mention of psychoanalysis, you have to look in another department, like the English department!)

So, depending on your particular subfields of interest in psychology, Williams may or may not be a good choice. For other subfields it is good, and one of my favorite psychology professors from my time at Williams is still there.

(You might look into Clark University for a safety- it has one of the best regarded psychology departments in the nation, and it is generous with merit aid.)

That said…

Williams is great because:
-It has small classes right from freshman year, and they are heavily discussion based.
-Professors and students work closely together and get to know one another both in and out of the classroom.
-There is a tight community, which begins with a Ephventures orientation program for new freshmen and continues with each freshman living in an “entry,” a small group of freshmen designed to be a microcosm of the college’s diversity, living with unpaid junior advisers who are there to help the freshmen adjust to college.
-This tight community leads to a tight alumni network.
-Its large endowment leads to seemingly endless resources and opportunities, all for undergraduate students. You want to do something (research or extracurricular activity), they make it possible!
-It has a great intellectual atmosphere. Kids love learning for learning’s sake, and conversations spill out of class into dorms and dining halls.
-Traditions like Trivia Nights and Mountain Day are quirky and fun.
-The mountains are so pretty, they are visible from many spots on campus, and you can walk to hiking trails right from the campus!

Down side of Williams: So far, we are not crazy about the course registration process. The jury is still out though, because son is first entering his freshman year…

I will let others comment on Vanderbilt (which also is a wonderful college), since I am unfamiliar with it.

You will get a great education at either, so you can’t go wrong! Big or small, north or south, rural or urban, are just choices to be made according to your preferences.

What are you post-grad plans, are you planning to attend grad school? Also the opportunities for these colleges will typically be based in their region, so if you want a job in the northeast, Williams would be better, similarly Vanderbilt for southeast.

What is the course registration process like, and what do you not like about it?

1 Like

@ucbalumnus - Current students and parents seem to have only great things to say about the school, so maybe our initial impression of course registration is warped. After all, everyone seems happy.

Registration is not first come, first serve. Students pre-register for the courses they want, and then, after everyone has pre-registered, professors get to choose who stays in the class. Sometimes there are guidelines (like “senior history majors preferred”), but once past those, the professors just pick. This is what the registrar’s office said, when asked.

S was dropped from two out of his four classes so far. One had a preference for freshmen, so I have absolutely no idea why he was dropped and other freshmen allowed to take the class. (Based on what? The professor didn’t like his name?)

Once dropped, one has to pick among the classes that still have openings, and a lot of classes already are closed. S might end up not taking a course in his intended major this semester, because most of the remaining options, which do not have times that conflict with the two classes he still has, or prerequisites, or bad teacher reviews, do not interest him. But some other open classes in other subjects sound very interesting, so it still will be a great semester.

And absolutely all of the classes under consideration are small, discussion-oriented classes.

I guess the flip side of small classes is that they are kept small by limiting enrollment!

Prospective students can get a peek at the situation by looking under Course Catalog on the website right now. One can see which classes are closed and which are still open. One can see that there are a lot of classes still open, and that there are enough that one never would have any problem meeting broad distribution requirements across the four years. It is just a matter of sometimes being locked out of specifiic courses you like, and then maybe not always finding a remaining one you want to take in a particular subject.

I do not know how Vanderbilt, or other larger universities, compare. Maybe freshmen end up with limited choices at that type of school as well. But maybe there are more class sections. But there probably are more large lectures than at Williams, I would guess.

I still think Williams is the best college on the planet! But it is not perfect.

As both Williams and Vandy are great colleges, you should pick by affordability. If both are affordable than go by fit and strength of your intended major. There is no wrong decision here but not many top 25 schools offer merit scholarships, Vandy is among few who does and have lower tuition than Williams so overall a better value.

Here you have the typical LAC vs. U differences: class size differences (advantage Williams), course and major offerings (advantage Vanderbilt), familiarity with and access to profs (Williams), D1 sports and more varied social scene (Vandy), close-knit (Williams) vs. relatively more space/anonymity (Vandy). Those are typical LAC/U differences and they apply here as well.

Both will set you up well for whatever you’d like to do afterward, whether work or further studies.

So to me it’s all about what you value and going to the place that offers (more of) it. And if you can’t decide based on academics and academic vibe, let the differences in sports/social scene and setting help you make the choice.

@TheGreyKing Has your son officially declared his major? If the school is aware of his intended major, I would call the registrar’s office because that would be very unusual for your son not to be able to take a class within his major each semester. Good luck!

Thanks, @shuttlebus.

But there are plenty of open classes in the subject, just not the ones he wants to take.

And he has found some great options in other departments, so he will have an enjoyable semester.

Majors are declared second semester sophomore year.

Sorry, @TheGreyKing I didn’t read your post carefully enough to catch where you said that there are open classes in your son’s major. While the students don’t officially declare until second semester sophomore year, my S tells me that he does think that the intended major is taken into consideration when filling classes freshman year.

My standard LAC vs RU argument applies here, “Williams now because you can always go to Vandy (or any other research uni) for grad school. The reverse is not true.”

Re: #9

Seems surprising that a well endowed private school has these kinds of scarcity issues, since they can afford to maintain reserve capacity to accommodate changes in student demand.

^How can they afford to maintain reserve capacity? But having a bunch of professors on dry ice if necessary? It doesn’t work that way.

My son went to Swarthmore (just graduated) and they also had capacity issues with the current popular major of CS. It all worked out fine, but there were some frustrations along the way.

@TheGreyKing

I’m glad to hear that you loved Williams as right now I think I am leaning towards it. Could you tell me what you liked about it, what your majored in as well as your favourite psych professor who is still there?

I spoke to another Williams alum who also loved the college but mentioned that due to its remoteness, he thinks he may have enjoyed a more suburban college experience. He said that initially it was very exciting but as one goes on to the last 2 years it was extremely monotonous and secluded. Would you disagree with this?

Has the alumni system worked well for you?

@starduste- Sure!

In post #6 above, I listed some of the things I loved best about Williams.

It really comes down to community- the incredible relationships with professors and students. It was great for me, as an only child who had never really been away from home, to be part of an “entry” at the start, with a built-in group of people to serve as a sort of family group. It made the transition easier. Then I branched out and made other friends, too. And professors really got to know you, too. I ate dinners with them- at their homes, in dining halls, and at school-run events. They brought their kids to a Halloween party our dorm ran for professors’ kids, and I went ice skating with a professor and her kid.

While I was at Williams, my advisor recommended me for all sorts of curriculum committees for the school (hey- I am currently a curriculum director in my post-Williams life!), to become a writing tutor for the college, to join a prejudice-reduction training group on campus, etc. I never would have known about these opportunities if he had not suggested them, because he knew me and guessed what would interest me.

I was an English major at Williams, mainly because I really enjoy reading fiction and I thought I would want to take an English class every semester anyway! (When I started at Williams, I thought I would major in biology, but I decided after a year of closely tracking a genetic mutation in fruit flies that lab work was not my passion.) I took a wide variety of classes in many subjects and enjoyed almost all of them. My career passion turned out to unrelated to anything I studied at Williams, as you will see below. But the skills I learned at Williams have benefitted me my whole life.

Williams has statistics available somewhere on their website about the percentage of alumni who get jobs through fellow alumni, and it is high. But personally, I did not. I went into public education on Long Island, so there were not any Williams alumni in the small districts responsible for hiring me. (At least not officially: I later learned that the superintendent of the first district that hired me had a son who went to Williams! So maybe that prejudiced him in my favor above the other finalist?) The name “Williams” was mentioned with an impressed voice at some of my interviews, as was the name of my grad school of Teachers College, Columbia U., which I went to on a big merit scholarship, which I am sure I received in large part because I went to Williams. So attending Williams helped that way.

As far as the location goes, for me it was a tremendous plus. I loved the beauty of the mountains. Growing up on Long Island, I only went into nearby Manhattan once a year, so I guess being close to a city was not important to me. And when I went to grad school at Columbia, I was less happy with the urban environment than I had been with the peaceful beauty of Williamstown. For my son, the final choice of Williams vs. another college for early decision came down to location: he wanted a rural college, since he had grown up in suburbia and did not find a suburb as appealing. Another CC poster has written that the happiest kids at Williams are those who go there in part because they like a rural area, not despite the area, and that may be true. (But almost everyone seems happy at Williams! Students seem to be very enthusiastic about the college.)

If you are worried that a rural area will not provide enough to do— well, just look at a weekly events schedule on their website. Any top college will be culture-saturated and have a lot going on: museums, concerts, theatre productions, famous speakers, sporting events, and tons of activities and events run by the college and by students. Add in unofficial parties and spontaneous games and conversations with your friends. And for Williams you can add all the local outdoor activities. It did not feel “monotonous” to me. I certainly was never bored!

(I am PM’ing you the name of the psychology prof you asked about, since I don’t know how people would feel about having their names shouted out on social media, even in a positive context!)