So I have to make a decision between these two schools-- and as someone who has not lived in the US I’ve only got the internet to give me opinions! US residents and knowledgeable people about schools please kindly give me ur thoughts.
In terms of money, both schools are giving me 60k-- I'm assuming that that will translate to less I have to spend on living/snacks if I go to williams, than vanderbilt? (due to the rural nature of williams). Which would be (marginally) cheaper?
I want to go into finance-- namely IB or consulting, and eventually work in New York (ofc wall street is the dream). Which school would be better for alumni networks, recruiting, prestige factor, and like-minded students (i.e. students also wanting to go into finance, although that may be a liability). Keeping in mind that I am a non-us resident, with no 'old money' connections, and am asian.
I want to go to a school that has a lot of activities and fun things to do, aside from drinking and parties. Since Williams is smaller, I'd heard that the ECs there are not as good as Vanderbilt? Is this true? And which school has the better party scene?
Location--I'm fine with the city life as well as rural living, having experienced both, but I'd like an alum or student of Vandy or Williams to give a personal opinion of the living location!
People-- I want to be able to make friends with ambitious, down to earth people, and also people interested in finance/banking/law so that i can start building my network. Both Williams and Vanderbilt seem to say they have these kinds of students, but do they really?? Also I like sport so which school is more sport/fitness conscious?
I am not knowledgeable about Vanderbilt but went to Williams. There are a ton of extracurricular activities, and, at a small school, it is really easy to get involved in them. There are tons of Williams alumni in investment banking and consulting so there are great connections. Those are actually two very popular fields to go into after Williams. There is good school spirit (sports) at Williams but it is Division 3 sports. There is an active outing club. The area is gorgeous with mountains and opportunities to hike, canoe, ski, etc. The student population is very friendly and the freshman entry system gives you an immediate first community when you arrive. I don’t know what you mean about old money, but I am a public high school graduate and was very at home at Williams; there are no social class divisions that I noticed. You really get to know your professors and classes are stimulating, with conversations spilling over into dorms and dining halls.
@Marcelleparcelle Vanderbilt is probably a better option for an international student being it is in Nashville, which is a dynamite place. Nashville is one of the most influential cultural hubs in the USA. Vandy has more of that USA College Experience that you know about. Vanderbilt has those sports that you asked about as well.
Transportation will be easier and you will have more to keep you busy.
I went to Williams and was dog broke all four years, but I found that it wasn’t such a big deal–there’s just not much to spend money on, so while I knew many of my friends had big shekels, it wasn’t as visible as it would be in a town with nightlife, shopping, etc.
Not sure that’s a big factor, but it made my undergrad life better.
I also think Williams is significantly better at the undergrad level. Its small class sizes and intimate atmosphere make it pretty hard to finish four years without getting educated. Maybe most importantly, though, I absolutely think the tutorials are one of the most amazing opportunities in US college-level education. I only took one (they weren’t as plentiful back in the day) and I learned years’ worth during that semester.
If it was my kid (domestic), I think Williams would be better for him. I sometimes wish I had attended Williams for many of the same reasons as @marvin100 notes, as opposed to the larger school I attended. But others may find a smaller school socially limiting or may want a bigger city. Vanderbilt is a great school and Nashville an excellent city with a lot to offer, separate from Vanderbilt. Did graduate school at Vandy. Both are great choices, just so very different.
@marcelleparcelle, Though there are certain overlaps in personalities of their student bodies, these colleges are very different in significant aspects – size, location, environment, weather. Either would provide an excellent education.
I can try to answer your questions on Williams since that’s the one I’m most familiar with.
Day to day living expenses at Williams are minimal as there's not much to spend money on in Williamstown. Most campus activities are college funded and are free to students.
Williams is well known and well respected on Wall Street and among financial institutions and consulting firms. It has an active and supportive alumni/ae network, an aggressive internship and job placement organization and a good track record for acceptances to top graduate schools.
Williams doesn't have a Greek system, but there are no shortage of parties large and small as well as a full agenda of arts, sports and other campus sponsored events.
I'm a parent not an alum, but for my son, who enjoys outdoorsy activities, Williams' mountain location was a definite plus. The insular nature of the college leads to a close knit community. Students manage to get to Boston and/or New York once or twice a term.
Yes, Williams really is full of ambitious, down to earth people who are also very smart, talented, energetic, kind and funny. They take their academics seriously, but also find time to pursue interests and hang out with friends. Sports and outdoorsy activities are a big part of Williams culture. It helps if you like to do something that involves snow.
I have no axe to grind as I have no affiliation with either school. That said, I see four issues here; quality of education, reputation, access to your chosen career path, and fit.
I don’t believe there is a college in America that can provide a better undergraduate liberal arts education than Williams (I attended one of the other top 3 LACs and then attended Harvard for business school, and if I were to do it again, Williams would be at or near the top of the list). There are a handful that equal Williams, but Vanderbilt is not yet one of those (to be fair, it is on an upward trajectory).
If you are planning on spending a substantial part of your life outside of the US and were deciding between Williams and HYPSM or Duke, I might recommend the latter, for reputational reasons only, because they are more internationally known. However, Vanderbilt is not one of those with a strong international reputation. Within the US among IB/Consulting recruiters and graduate schools Williams is as good as it gets, and its reputation is certainly stronger than Vanderbilt’s. My perspective comes from having lived in the US, Europe, Africa and now SE Asia.
Williams has strong ties to the IB and Strategic Consulting worlds with many prominent alums in both fields. I would be very surprised if Vanderbilt can say the same despite being a much larger university.
A smaller college in a small rural town in Northwestern Massachusetts v. a larger university in Nashville is a fit issue that only you can decide. You will find interesting people and friends at both. My guess is the Williams students will have a less parochial perspective. Vanderbilt will give you a big university sports experience as part of the SEC, however, Williams will provide strong school spirit as a perennial leader in the NESCAC which is a very competitive conference for New England liberal arts colleges.
My guess is that you don’t yet grasp how very blessed you are to have the opportunity to attend a college as outstanding as Williams (and to attend virtually for free). Don’t be concerned that Williams has a limited international reputation. It is very well known and appreciated where it matters. Only if the fit at Williams is totally wrong and Vanderbilt holds a strong fit appeal would I choose it.
Williams may have educational advantages based on structural factors alone: “How the instructional and learning environment at liberal arts colleges enhance cognitive development” (Pascarella, Wang, Trolian and Blaich).
@OnTheBubble, I am glad you found the post entertaining. I meant no disrespect to your beloved Vanderbilt, and, as I said earlier, I have no vested interest in either school, but simply in providing the OP with information that might be helpful.
The reality is that Vanderbilt is a virtual unknown outside the US, and even within the US, its reputation has been more regional than national. Please note, I did point out that it is on an upward trajectory.
Universities trying to increase their prominence play the “upping the average SAT game” and work hard to game their admit and yield rates. In that respect Vanderbilt has a lot in common with WashU and Tufts. Princeton, Harvard and Williams could fill their classes with students with perfect SAT/ACT scores. They choose not to because at their level it is more important to holistically evaluate applicants, than to place too much emphasis on one of several admissions criteria.
As an aside, the actual averages for Harvard, Princeton, and Vanderbilt for the Class of 2019 (the most recent available), were 2260, 2250, and 2230, respectively. So, even providing a heavier weighting on SATs in their admissions decisions, Vanderbilt lags the others. Again, to provide all of the relevant information, the Williams figure for the Class of 2019 was 2190.
As an additional aside, while Vanderbilt may be one of three universities ranked #15 in USN&WR, Williams was the only LAC ranked #1.
@am61517 Yes, keep going. Vanderbilt is just a cute little regional school. I believe you now because you said it is virtually unknown. I’m convinced, you convinced me.
I guess the top 15 medical school and top 15 law school are just anomalies as well.
Just a little secret for the country folk down south.
No disrespect to either argument is intended, but I prefer Forbes ranking methodology to USN&WR. It focuses more on real world application (ROI), than how hard a school is to attend (selectivity). I think of an education as a tool to better myself, rather than a race. If I were only going to school for 4 years, and remain in the South, I would attend Vandy. If I were going to go to grad school, law school or med school, I would pick Williams. As for me, I was rejected by both :)…but got into Emory, Wake Forest and Colby, Guess which I chose?
Since you are from outside of the US, are you seeking anything from home, whether it be food, students from your country, cultural groups, a minimum percentage of international students, etc? That may influence the decision one way or another?
My D (a junior) and I are going to see Vanderbilt in a couple of weeks. I will let you know what we think.
I agree with @midnightpizza ; as soon as someone mentions their college’s USNews ranking to me, they’ve already lost the argument because all that means is that they can’t think of anything really useful to say about what makes it a great college.
Nevertheless, I would say Williams has the advantage here, but not as overwhelmingly as some have painted. A lot of the differences between the two will have no meaning to someone coming from outside the US; people from different states of the union are not entirely different species from one another. A rich kid from Tennessee will appear pretty much the same as a rich kid from Massachusetts. Either school would meet the OP’s needs; it’s just a matter of whether access to a major American cultural center trumps what could arguably be a clearer path to a career in New York City?
(Also I’d like to add I have no idea the differences between USNews and Forbes rankings-- do they count for anything? Because it seems LACs are often ranked higher than Ivies/Stanford/etc)
From what I’ve gathered in the responses, I would be happier socially at Vanderbilt due to the larger school/school spirit/sports and Nashville, but Williams would allow me to stay in the USA afterwards to work here–the most important factor. (right?) And since I grew up in semi-rural NZ, the location of Williams wouldn’t be that different?
as another poster said, I'm not a US citizen and so would be on F1 visa, and then need to get a IB bank to sponsor me for a full time role to get the H-1b visa (and this would allow me to stay in the US rather than going back to my home country). While Williams has a good alumni network/name rec, would that network/name rec., assuming that I'm a good candidate, be enough to convince banks to sponsor my H-1b? Williams has a really good careers centre, but have they sent any international kids successfully to banks that have sponsored their visas? (as some banks do not consider certain applicants due to their need for sponsorship). Or would the chances of sponsorship be higher at Vanderbilt?
'rich kids'-- is there a difference in levels of snobbiness and exclusion in the 2 schools? I've heard some accounts of Asian students being excluded at Vandy but I dont know how reliable they are. Also, this sounds bad but which school would have more 'rich kids' with connections to banking that possibly would help me secure an internship/job?
thank you all so much!! Sorry for asking all these questions, I just want to make the right choice!