Williams College (Questbridge) vs Berkeley (OOS)

I can’t believe that anyone would even consider this question. But if this is for real, do you have siblings? If you do going to Berkley will eliminate their ability to go to college unless they have a full ride.

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These parent loans will also stranglehold the parents. What if they need a car loan? What if they have medical expenses that require a loan and/or make getting additional loans not likely? The parents won’t be able to get those loans.

This student (if this is for real) is willing to sacrifice the financial situation of their whole family for an ill conceived perception of prestige. I find this unbelievable.

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Questbridge family income eligibility is generally capped at 60k, sometimes up to 70k for a large family. OP, are you seriously wanting your parents to borrow their gross annual income to fund UCB for you?

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Every year for four years! And this is if their income is at the cap. It very well could be much lower with a $0 EFC.

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Excellent, fair and honest summary from thumper1.

Agree :100:.

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The are so many red flags regarding financial literacy here. It’s hard to believe anyone involved in this student’s life truly understands the implications of this debt.

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Are OP’s parents US citizens? Are they US residents? Sounds like they are not. As such, do they qualify to take out Parent Plus loans, even with an excellent credit score? I don’t know the answer but am curious.

How do you feel knowing your parents have an extra load of debt so that you go to UCB; yet, you have an incredible opportunity at Williams where you will get extra attention and perks? I am sure your parents work hard, but I couldn’t fathom this (imo selfish) decision of yours to go to UCB and have your parents drown in debt and not save for retirement.

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Cal’s reputation and location typically opens up more opportunities and also makes it easier to get those opportunities, beginning freshman year. It’s hard to explain unless you’re here. That being said desirability of a college in silicon valley is determined by how the grads do there, not necessarily reputation. That’s why you have SJSU, Santa Clara, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Purdue, Arizona State, Cal Poly along with the two most popular - Stanford and Cal.

“SILICON VALLEY - Not that close to Berkeley.”

It’s technically not in SV, but local companies can recruit easily by having say job fairs (pre-covid days) on campus because it’s only 45 or so minutes away.

“And what happens if you have a change of heart, and decide to switch majors? This is simple at Williams … not so easy at Berkeley.”

Why? Berkeley has way more majors than Williams, especially if OP wanted data science or engineering. And for non-stem (poly sci, econ, a foreign language, literature), Berkeley has good programs there as well.

"I did a search for Williams College alumni in the Silicon Valley area. I found so many alums from Williams College living in Silicon Valley working in Tech that I eventually stopped counting. "

The search I just ran had 1701 Williams alums in the bay area, which is actually pretty good given Williams’ size. The top tech employers are Google, MSFT, Amazon, FB, in that order.

“I am not favoring either Williams or Berkeley, and would appreciate people who are familiar with both of these schools”

I’ve actually been on both campuses but not a grad of either. They’re really different wrt to location, vibe, culture, demographics (huge difference there imo wrt racial and income) that I’m a little surprised that hasn’t been more of a factor after affordability and job prospects. Williams (CDS) has 46% White, 13% Hispanic, 7% Black, 14% Asian, while UCB has 39% Asian, 20% White, 19% Hispanic, 4% Black). I’m guessing both colleges have info on LGBTQ, Pell Grants if that’s of interest, but you have to dig a little more for that. Income wise (Chetty), the median family income of a student from Williams is $186K, 67% income from the top 20 percent, 5.3% from bottom 20%. Berkeley median income is $120K, 54% from top 20%, 7.3% from bottom 20%. Like I said pretty different campuses.

“All of the reasons for choosing Berkeley just don’t hold water. They just don’t.”

imo, the OP feels that Berkeley is a better fit for her or him. These are their words: "I am excited, and would lean towards Berkeley and “I would feel crushed not to take the opportunity to attend such a renowned prestigious school.” If OP thought that Williams was the right college for her, they would have already taken the Williams offer.

I would agree…except there is that small detail about needing to fully fund Cal with…loans.

And that the student applied to Williams in their initial applications…and added Cal “on a whim”. That would imply there was some due diligence regarding Williams when he or she applied.

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Why would anyone assume the worst case for Berkeley and not for Williams? What if the OP felt they made the wrong choice, didn’t fit in at Williams, an already isolated campus, and kept wishing they were at UCB. Financially they are fine of course, but then finances are taking higher precedence than happiness.

My comment is based on 100% borrowing and a $280k COA …today…without inflation and nothing else.

At Williams he’ll have paid for housing ? How will he find it, how will he get approved for it and how will he afford it at UCB?

Not having financial stability gives instability into accessing certain necessities, especially ones that require credit approval.

A good credit score does not = credit approval, on a lease for example. OPs parents may have a good credit score although we don’t know what it is. That alone does not get you a lease, etc.

Frankly, with the offer given and again I’d say the same whether it was Williams, Wyoming or Western Michigan….you tough it out. You have no chance short of crippling your family.

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Finances taking precedence over happiness?? So if I would be happier in a mansion with a swimming pool, I should go into crippling debt to pay for it? That’s ludicrous

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But in the OP’s it’s even more irresponsible, putting parents in crippling debt.

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Again…presumably this OP did due diligence when they submitted their college applications. IOW, there were good reasons why Williams was on the list.

They applied to Berkeley “on a whim”. This implies they didn’t do as clear due diligence…and certainly not about costs and aid to OOS students.

If this family could afford this second guessing, I would say…just pick. But fact is…this family has a $0 EFC. Assuming any level of debt when they have the offer of a free ride to a very top school is beyond irresponsible financially.

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There really is just no rational way you can justify putting you and your family into $280k worth of debt to go to a school that has similar if not slightly worse career outcomes. If you dislike your experience at Williams, you can always transfer out after your first year into a school that better fits your needs and isn’t absurdly expensive.

Correct me if I’m wrong but what’s holding you back seems to be the lack of international name recognition and prestige that Williams has and the fact that it is rural. If that’s the case, I’d recommend you looking into the University of Chicago. They love their lateral transfers, have a great international reputation, and is located smack dab in the middle of, well, Chicago.

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Student loan calculators show borrowing $60K/year for each of the next 4 years at the current rate of 3.73% would have a monthly payment of $2400 for 10 years. Basic financial literacy sources suggest keeping the monthly payment of student loans at 10-20% of the salary, which would be $12,000-24,000 PER MONTH. I admit I am not that familiar with starting salaries for computer science but I doubt they are in excess of $200K.

That amount of debt would be crippling to my D and we don’t have a $0 EFC. Of course, my D doesn’t want to live with us for 10 years after she graduates :rofl:

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Is your assuredly dropping out comment because of financial reasons? That would make sense.

“Finances taking precedence over happiness?? So if I would be happier in a mansion with a swimming pool, I should go into crippling debt to pay for it? That’s ludicrous”

I wouldn’t do it, but not everybody has the same values, especially when it comes to spending money. My larger point is that we always recommend fit over prestige and I know that recommendation is based on similar affordability.

The recommendation I’ve seen is that loans in total for all four years should not exceed the first year salary. So…if this student borrows $250,000 or more…is there an expectation that their starting salary will be that high? It won’t be…and it doesn’t matter where they get their degree.

Debt is debt. If the student assumes this debt upon graduation, then will they be a qualified loan recipient for housing, a car? Anything? Probably not…because their debt is already too high.

And again…there are employers who won’t hire folks with significant debt. This is real.

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Yes bcuz I don’t believe the students parents can get that much. Maybe I could be wrong. And in year two, three or four hrs not going back. Or he’ll have no place to live, etc bcuz how will he get a lease ?

This student also says he, not his parents, will pay. But that’s not what the lender knows…they know the parents.

Finally @thumper1 makes a wonderful point.The app to Williams was done on purpose but not to Berkeley.

He could have (and maybe did) apply to a school like Mac that is in city or other more urban.

I’m going to see Paul McCartney. I can afford it….the $160 seats.

I’d love to sit front row. But it would cripple me financially. I’ll make due with the wonderful opportunity I have.

Some drive used Toyota Corollas. Others drive Lamberghinis.

We’d all love to but we all have different budgets, etc.

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