<p>Hi! Just wondering what your thoughts are on williams college and brown university. they are my top two schools, so id love opinions! Ej what the student bodies are like (i got the impression at brown that there werent a lot of jocks) courses, environment etc. Would love opinions from students at williams or brown! thanks!!</p>
<p>it isn't that there aren't jocks at Brown--there are plenty. the difference is that Brown is very diverse and jocks (and WASPs for that matter) don't dominate the culture, whereas at Williams it is widely held that they do.</p>
<p>they are both great schools, a lot of the difference in preference has to do with the classic LAC vs. university issues, and rural vs. small city setting.</p>
<p>among cross-admits, brown wins the vast majority (meaning the vast majority of people that have the choice, choose brown over williams)</p>
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among cross-admits, brown wins the vast majority
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<p>I trust you dcircle, but can you cite a source?</p>
<p>Revealed Preference:</p>
<h1>7 Brown</h1>
<h1>18 Williams</h1>
<p>Still, I can think of students for whom Williams would be the first choice.</p>
<p>It's kind of an odd pairing for your top two choices, because these two schools have totally different "personalities". Williams is a rural outdoorsy college, Brown is a funky urban university. They don't have a lot in common, other than both being academically excellent. </p>
<p>Williams is arguably much more like Dartmouth than it is like Brown.
Brown is arguably much more like Wesleyan than it is like Williams.</p>
<p>Brown or Williams?</p>
<p>go visit, see for YOURSELF.</p>
<p>don't choose school based on internet posters.</p>
<p>people put waaaayyy too much stock in that revealed preference study...
i highly doubt that Brown wins the vast-majority of cross-admits...
I bet it's a pretty small pool of cross-admits as well because I doubt there is
a huge amount of overlap even in the applicant pools.</p>
<p>I would go to Williams as it is #1!!!!</p>
<p>of all the rankings, at very selective schools the revealed preference study (and the cross-admit data they have collected every year for decades) is primarily what admissions officers pay attention to.</p>
<p>They put a lot of stock in it because they want their top choice admits to matriculate and it is the most reliable metric of perceived prestige among prospective students. </p>
<p>Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore have pretty health overlap pools with all of the New England Ivies</p>
<p>The only "competitor" with notably smaller overlap at Brown is Princeton</p>
<p>Mandi, My son is a junior at Williams. He was also very interested in Brown. Although theres a fair amount of overlap, I think the two schools are quite different, especially in physical environment. Providence is an East Coast city with a balance of old charm and new urban problems. Williamstown is a charming New England village surrounded by mountains and nature. It is quite insular.</p>
<p>Williams kids are very active, even those that are not involved directly in sports tend to do something physical like dance, hiking, skiing. Winters are long and severe so it helps if you are interested in a snow related activity. Williams also has a vibrant arts scene with some of the best small museums in the country. The new performing arts center is splendid and there are many opportunities for dance, music and theater.</p>
<p>I'd give Brown the edge on political activism.</p>
<p>Aside from environment the major difference is scale 7500 vs 2000 students. Research university vs undergraduate focus. Both offer excellent academics but the style of learning will be different.</p>
<p>I agree that it's important to visit as the reaction to both of these schools tends to be visceral.</p>
<p>I'll preface this post by saying that I'm a current Williams Junior (studying abroad at Oxford) with several friends at Brown as well as a sister seriously considering both Brown and Williams. While I looked at Brown, I ended up not applying. If I had had to add 1-2 more schools on to my application list, Brown would probably have been one of them. However, I do have a number of friends at Williams who seriously considered attending both schools--I think that it's a fairly common overlap.</p>
<p>To begin, if you talk to the admissions office at either Brown or Williams, they'll tell you that the schools splits common admits almost perfectly evenly.</p>
<p>Regarding the two schools, they're very different academically. Williams is a liberal arts college (arguably the best), while Brown is one of the finer Universities around. This means that Brown will have a larger selection of classes and more total research opportunities. Williams, however, will have smaller classes, no TAs, and will tend to give its students more responsibility in the research. Personally, for pure academics, unless I was looking into a specialty subject not offered at Williams, I would choose Williams over Brown every single time without a second thought.</p>
<p>Culturally the schools are also very different. Both Brown and Williams are fairly liberal, but Brown is far more politically active and even more radical than Williams. You'll find most Williams students falling in the moderate democrat-liberal democrat range, while more brown students will fall much further on the left end of the spectrum. Neither school has many conservatives. </p>
<p>Additionally, Williams has a very health-conscious, active student body. Stereotypically many people characterize it as an athletically-dominated school, but this is far from the truth; Williams' incredible success in athletics is no different from its incredible success in, say, music or the arts--athletics just happen to be far more visible and consequently gets far more mentions from the outside world. Students tend to be very active and involved both in and out of the classroom at Williams. Brown is more laid-back in this sense...while students certainly participate in extracurriculars, they don't to nearly the extent that Williams students do. You'll find a much bigger and more visible artsy culture at Brown than at Williams and alternatively a much bigger outdoors culture at Williams. It's important to note that Williams has a fair amount of social drinking, but virtually no drugs of any sort. Brown probably has less social drinking than Williams, but far more people smoke (cigarettes and pot) and there is somewhat of a harder drug scene.</p>
<p>Brown prides itself in being a school with an extremely progressive culture while Williams prides itself on being a school with an extremely tightly knit friendly community.</p>
<p>Finally, Brown is in Providence and Williams is in Williamstown. If spectacularly beautiful New England countryside is your thing, then Brown is probably not the place to go. If going to college in a real city is your thing, Williams probably should not be your first choice. Now don't get me wrong, Williams is in the Berkshires--an area with a surprising amount to do, especially if you're interested in art/music/theatre. Williamstown is one of the more perfect New England villages you'll find anywhere. However, for the student looking for numerous clubs, bars, or even people not affiliated with their University, you're not going to find that in Williamstown (but you will in Providence).</p>
<p>Post-graduate wise, Brown has the advantage of being in the Ivy League. Your nextdoor neighbors, grocers, aunt's co-workers, etc etc will be far more impressed with Brown than with Williams. However, among grad schools and the vast majority of your potential employers (ie: the people who count), the two are pretty equally respected. Williams has a stronger and more active alumni network, so if you're thinking of going into a career where networking makes a difference, that's a factor to consider. Both do excellently in terms of grad school/med school/law school placement, with Williams having the slight edge, albeit probably not enough that you should base any part of your decision on it. I'd say the only major (offered at both schools) that would clearly lead to your picking one school over the other is Art History, which if you're looking into doing, you should definitely go to Williams. </p>
<p>I hope that helps. Obviously everyone on this board (including myself) is trying to draw attention to the differences between the two schools, and consequently overemphasizing them. They're both excellent and chances are most students would be pretty equally as happy at either.</p>
<p>A relative of mine who is a professor at graduate business school says they love their Williams student applicants, including economics majors.</p>
<p>Might also matter what you wish to study. If archaeology, Egyptology, classics, or foreign languages, you'd be nuts to choose Williams over Brown. If art history, you'd be crazy to choose Brown over Williams. </p>
<p>But they are such different places. Spend a Thursday overnight at each, and the decision should become clearer.</p>
<p>I totally disagree, you wouldn't be crazy to do any of those things. Its UNDREGRAD, the ranking of departments matters so much less. Both Brown and Williams grads are equally successful, this isn't a prestige or career choice, its a lifestyle one. Personally I would go to Brown, Williams is too small for me. If I wanted a hybrid of the two I would go to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Wow, what a coincidence to find this thread. My D, who is a HS soph, just received unsolicited letters from both Brown and Williams today. Though it may seem early for her to start looking at colleges, she will be visiting both next month. The insight on the board is very helpful.</p>
<p>"I totally disagree, you wouldn't be crazy to do any of those things. Its UNDREGRAD."</p>
<p>Well, just try to find an Egyptology course at Williams. Just one. Or an active Italian conversation club or film society. Or, alternatively, try to get a job out college in art museums when competing with Williams grads. HUGE difference.</p>
<p>Personally, I went to Williams, and, if doing it today, would go to Brown. But none of the things I listed were my areas of interest. (I don't see much similarity between Brown, an urban campus with no distributional requirements, and Dartmouth, a rural one with fraternities and strict distributional requirements, other than they play football against each other.)</p>
<p>slipper, you shouldn't totally disagree, at least not for Egyptology. Brown has it; Williams doesn't.</p>
<p>I think mini mentioned this cuz I've mentioned having a daughter at Brown studying Egyptology. It is the only school in the Western Hemisphere that has this as an undergrad concentration. Three others in the US have near eastern studies where there is relevant coursework -- Williams ain't one of them.</p>
<p>Not all schools have all departments.</p>
<p>I can't compare the two schools because we never looked at Williams. My daughter (who considers herself a jock, at least in one sport) loves it at Brown because people are friendly and noncompetitive and professors are approachable. Maybe folks are happy because there are no distribution requirements and you can take anything you chose satisfactory/no credit if you wish.</p>
<p>The area around Brown is very nice. The surrounding residential area is primarily nice Victorian houses; at least, I think that style is Victorian -- lots of gingerbread, if you know what I mean. I want to live in one of those places every time I go up there. Thayer runs through the university and it has a number of restaurants, stores, and the like.</p>
<p>I forgot to ask. dcircle, what does "The only "competitor" with notably smaller overlap at Brown is Princeton" mean precisely? People who get admitted to both tend to go to Brown? Or to Princeton? Or does it mean that the folks who tend to apply to one place don't apply to the other?</p>
<p>Maybe in these very select areas, but for most it won't matter. </p>
<p>As for Dartmouth being a hybrid:</p>
<p>Similarities between Dartmouth and Brown:
- Size
- Type of student (Bill Clinton liberal, laid back, non-competitive, friendly).
- LAC/ University hybrids - both have a few grad programs but strongly focus on the undergrad
- Social scene (Both on campus based. Brown may be in an urban area but few students venture beyond Thayer street, its really a bubble in a part of town). </p>
<p>Dartmouth and Williams:
- Rural
- Undergrad focused
- Outdoorsy students love them</p>
<p>How Dartmouth is a hybrid
- Size between these two (closer to Brown)
- On-campus social scene
- Rural but surrounding area is in between both (More urban than Williamstown, less than Brown). Larger "town" than Williams, smaller than Brown (Thayer street is larger and more student oriented).
- Hybrid LAC</p>
<p>"I think mini mentioned this cuz I've mentioned having a daughter at Brown studying Egyptology. It is the only school in the Western Hemisphere that has this as an undergrad concentration."</p>
<p>It's not just Egyptology. Williams has a single "teacher" of Italian for a total of three course (doesn't go past first term intermediate) taught by a Latin-American studies prof. If you want to do serious Renaissance history, art, music.... Or simply want to spend JYA with any of the Italian programs that require two years of study? You can't - they don't have two years worth of courses. The French department consists of four folks (one usually on leave), with a tiny set of offerings. The Spanish department, German department, Arabic?.... There must be 50 LACs with better offerings in these areas than Williams, and a comparison with Brown is whimsical. Same with archaeology. Williams has been trying to beef up its classics department of late. If you want a concentration in education, medieval studies, ....</p>
<p>But the flip side of course is the amazing, extraoardinary resources in art history, with contacts in the arts around the world. And superb, caring teachers, and (likely) in many areas smaller classes. </p>
<p>These courses may not matter to the OP, but he explicitly asked for information about courses. If Williams has what you are looking for, you'll get a great education! (as you will at Brown). Just make sure you kick the tires.</p>