Asking anyone who has visited either campus. The plan was to visit schools after being accepted, but can I’m Asian male from from CA. What is the culture differences between them? Read that Dartmouth has a strong frat presence. Do you need to join a frat to have a decent social life? Is the hazing process difficult? What is the time commitment to being involved in a frat?
My friend, a '24, chose Dartmouth over being recruited for Williams. I can get you in contact with him, if you’d like!
Personally the frat atmosphere alone would keep me from recommending Dartmouth but that’s just me. Google the Rolling Stone article about Dartmouth’s frats. Things might have changed since then but frats remain a significant part of the atmosphere as far as I know. While both schools are woodsy (I use that word rather than isolated because I like the woods), Dartmouth has more incidences of untoward events because of that factor. Yes, Dartmouth offers skiing too, and it’s beloved by many, but D is known for raucous parties plus it developed an atmosphere that led to the recent professor/student scandals. I’m putting this information here so that you can evaluate these things for yourself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/us/dartmouth-sexual-abuse-settlement.html
Williams to my mind hasn’t had these issues. Others may know more than me.
To me the question is, given an equal level of isolation, which school handles it in the manner that you prefer?
If you like outdoor activities, Williams has a very active Outing Club. https://woc.williams.edu/getting-involved.
Dartmouth has the reputation for being politically moderate while there have been reports coming out of Williams of political correctness and censorship run amok. (I say that as apsomeone who hates the term “political correctness”.) Academically it doesn’t get much better than Williams.
Both are outstanding schools, so there is probably no wrong choice.
Yes, Dartmouth has a strong Greek life presence, but more than half of the students are not in fraternities or sororities, so please don’t feel like you will need to join one to have friends, have a social life, fit in, etc. I know students who are very happy at Dartmouth and are not in fraternities or sororities. People I have come across from there are generally friendly.
I feel like Dartmouth’s culture/vibe is a little more laid back than Williams. And I mean that relatively speaking, because obviously you will have rigorous academics at both.
You have no wrong choice here. Personally, I would recommend Williams because of the frat culture at Amherst. Otherwise, it is the difference between a Liberal Arts College, and a research university, though one which is pretty small, and which has many more characteristics of a liberal arts college than do most research universities with that high level of research.
I like both Williamstown and Hanover but Hanover has more going on I think. The area around Hanover is beautiful, with the river nearby. Williamstown is near North Adams and MassMOCA and has its own Clark museum, the main reason I have visited
Tough choice. Is frat life really still strong at Dartmouth? That seems to be the main concern expressed. I had hoped things had improved.
No wrong choice.
Do you prefer a school with 4,400 undergraduate students plus several hundred graduate students or a school with less than 2,100 undergraduate students ?
Dartmouth also has a very active outing club (DOC) and it’s the oldest outing club in the nation.
Through the DOC, you can do so much (skiing, canoeing, etc) and the DOC provides any equipment you’d need. The incoming class also has the first year trips where freshman have the opportunity to bond over a 5 day camping/hiking trip before their start at Dartmouth.
Both Williams and Dartmouth are amazing schools. Do you plan on going to graduate school? If so, Dartmouth has amazing resources nearby and on campus that provides lots of opportunities and experience (DHMC, Geisel, Tuck, etc).
Dartmouth and Williams are more similar than they are different. They both are amazing places to attend school. Both have cohesive communities of people who love their school.
At my house my personal choice was Williams because like most of you i leaned toward no frat life. She visited Williams 3x and i thought she would be attending.
However, it was my D’s choice. While there is no frat life, they are not at a loss for drinking at Williams. She chose Dartmouth because she said that she did feel the difference between 4000 and 2000 students.
Full disclosure: my child will attend Williams and did not apply to Dartmouth due to its strong Greek life. I am sure that there are many lovely students at Dartmouth who are conscientious and smart, regardless of whether they participate in Greek life. That said, I was deeply concerned by this news item about students returning to live in their frat and sorority houses despite the college and the town of Hanover asking them not to: https://www.vnews.com/Some-Dartmouth-students-returning-to-live-off-campus-33818584
Right, so I’m gonna tackle your concerns. I’m a current Dartmouth student, and an asian (though south asian) so I think I can help you here.
Firstly in response to the rolling stone article, please see: https://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-confessions-of-an-ivy-league-frat-boy-by-andrew-lohse-1408742685
The info in the article above is consistent with what I know about the frats here and people in them.
@gotham_mom it is easy to judge, but I have heard that many of these kids return because they have nowhere else to go. Think, if these kids were able to stay in a stable home environment for the duration of the epidemic, then they would. Or their families would ensure they would. These people are not doing it to rebel or out of spite, this is their only option.
Now, below is a long response I gave to someone else concerned about the frat scene. Feel free to ask me any other Dartmouth-related questions.
Firstly, the greek spaces, unlike at most other schools are very inclusive. For almost every event at a greek house, you only need an id to get in. This discourages (well, largely) the typical rich white kid greek life common at other schools. As an Indian, I felt very comfortable there.
As to binge drinking, it is present, but it is not what everyone does. There are always a few people at a party who go too far and hop around, but most people, in my opinion drink responsibly. In fact, they tackled this in our orientation. All the freshman were in a room, and they had us fill out anonymously on a sheet of paper how much we drank at an event on average, the had us throw them around such that we each got someone else’s. They then called on us to stand up if our new paper read a certain number, going in order. The vast majority stood up for between 0 and 3 drinks.
This is consistent with polling data in our college. The Animal House thing (BTW the frat Animal House was based on was closed down permanently) gave us a reputation that in my opinion, isn’t really deserved. I suppose you could say we party more on campus, but that’s because it is a very campus-based existence we live as opposed to city existence. Rather than going clubbing, we go fratting. I, and I believe most of my peers prefer it that way, since I think you are less likely to run into harmful characters on your campus.
As to the need to take part in greek life – I don’t know who said that but that is demonstrably untrue. It is true that at least half of people you know here will end up taking part. But for most people, its a chill commitment. You can make of it what you want. It’s likely to be a smaller part of your Dartmouth experience rather than a dominating thing. Furthermore, the frats are diverse — only a few (I can provide names) are the party hard conventional frats. There is one, for example, that runs frequent milk and cookie nights, sundae nights and plays board games most of the time. Others play video games, are oriented on social justice etc.
There is so much more to the Dartmouth experience than greek life or drinking. Our sense of community, which you touched on in our post; outdoorsiness; the fact that all of us are super interested and passionate about something, and love conversing about these things. There are many avenues for whatever social life you want here. I plan not to rush – and I am not scared of that at all. All the parties are open to me anyways if I want to, and I do go friday nights. But I spend my saturdays chilling, talking to friends, and playing board games. Plus there are student societies like the Dartmouth Outing Club, and the theater and improv groups, that are a social sphere all their own.
Furthermore, I did not really drink before coming to Darty. And I didn’t the first few times I went out. There was no pressure to drink, and there were always a few others who planned to stay completely or mostly sober as well. I still don’t go all out — getting a little tipsy is enough for me. And I think that’s the same for most of peers.
Feel free to message me about any more concerns.
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An above poster wrote: That there is a frat at Dartmouth which frequently has “milk and cookie nights”.
What’s in the cookies ?
Darty ?
They are fresh baked with chocolate chips. That particular frat is one of the wholesome ones. They usually just talk to each other and have fun, substance free.
I fail to see why you thought it was anything else, given the context.
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Just an attempt at adding a bit of levity to the discussion.
Ah, i see @Publisher. My apologies.
@Publisher forgot to apply the humor font. One of my frequent failings as well. Your answer was an excellent one @Gogreen19; I never feel the need to chime in when you offer such a thorough and balanced view of the college.