<p>No doubt I gave a Williams-centric view of the differences. And Harvard folks will be better able to give a Harvard-centric view, as they have done. But in some ways, it’s hardly needed, because most folks will pick Harvard over anywhere else just because it’s Harvard, and I think fair consideration shows that there are real advantages to a place like Williams. The people I knew who picked Williams over the likes of HPYS (and I knew plenty in general who chose Williams over top-tier Ivies, though only one comes to mind who turned Harvard down) were often greeted by surprised reactions from many who had never heard of Williams, but in the end, none of them regretted it, and all have gone on to lead enormously successful lives. If you get overly caught up in name/prestige, you will often ignore the possibilities of an environment that will better serve you. </p>
<p>And this just doesn’t apply for Williams vs. Harvard. It also applies, for example, when comparied Williams, Harvard, or any “elite” name brand vs. other types of college opportunities as well. I knew a lot of kids who ended up going to honors programs at schools a few notches below, or took advantage of scholarship opportunities, and so long as the fit is good, I haven’t seen anyone who has suffered in the long run from that kind of decision. [And all sorts of studies about, for example, the correlation between salary and college attended, once adjusted for things like high school GPA and SAT, bear that out … enormously self-motivated people tend to do well wherever they go, so long as they make the right choice for them]. </p>
<p>To touch on one thing, re: the extracurriculars. What Hanna said is absolutely correct. But there is a flip-side to that. For a friend who was involved in the newspaper at Harvard, that was her entire life at times in college. It was an incredibly enriching and fulfilling experience, without any doubt, but that came to define her college experience. At Williams, I was able to hold leadership positions in multiple differenct activities while also doing fine in classes and having a rich social life, and I really enjoyed that opportunity. True, you aren’t going to be running a world-class operation, but you have more opportunities to be engaged at a high level in multiple different and highly diverse endeavors. It just depends which model you prefer …</p>
<p>The other posters have made some excellent points. Another to consider might be the department in which you’re interested. If it’s Econ or Bio or another forever-popular major, the smaller school may offer a more intimate experience (if perhaps a less diverse one because of a smaller sampling of classes). But if you’re interested in a department that’s typically much smaller, you’re likely to develop close relationships with your professors and other students in your department even in the larger school, and the smaller one might not have the resources to let you study it in depth. </p>
<p>My school is at a weird in-between place between LAC and university, so I can see the pros and cons of both sides. The kids here who were also seriously considering Harvard tend to be much more oblong, sparkly, sharp, etc. They’re the ones constantly sending me FB invites to this that and the other performance, etc. By contrast, those that were also seriously considering top LACs tend to be gregarious, generally smart (maybe a 4/5 whereas the Harvard-type kids are either 3’s with great ECs or blow-your-mind 5’s), more interested in schoolwork, and involved in a smattering of low-commitment EC’s like tutoring and intramurals. </p>
<p>As others have said, it’s only a matter of preference. What kind of college experience do you want? I wanted one that emphasized the classroom experience over EC’s, so I crossed H off the list (but also chose P over UChic for their creative writing program, so…).</p>
<p>I want an environment that’s more intimate and professor-accessible, but I don’t want the perks associated with a big ivy name degree…job placement, connections, etc. Princeton is an amazing school and I also hope to get in there. I got a likely letter from Dartmouth yesterday, and was wondering if that was a good omen for my princeton chances…or does this have no correlation?</p>
<p>I like ECs and pursue my major one-singing-in my spare time. I am social, and would like a good balance-academics, good social life, ECs, etc…I don’t want a one-dimensional experience. btw, does princeton have as much grade deflation as most people say?</p>
<p>@Eph I know you were, but I felt like your comparison drew a picture that wasn’t the most true to my personal experience here. I think I may react slightly too vehemently to people pushing liberal arts colleges over universities in general… For some reason, my two college counselors, my parents, CC (when I had a different username), and all but one of my teachers pressured me for two years in high school not to pick a university because “the only reason I could possibly have for picking the university was the name,” which was upsetting. Picking a university in the end was definitely the right decision for me! But it was a near thing because almost every source of advice I had way over-corrected for the prevailing narrative in favor of the Ivy League. I completely agree that both Williams and Harvard have real and distinct advantages, though, and that if Harvard and Williams are your examples of each type of college experience, it is very hard to go wrong!</p>
<p>@OP
Professor accessibility: What are you interested in studying? How professor-accessible Harvard is varies tremendously by field. </p>
<p>Singing: Our singing groups are fantastic, and I know Yale’s are equally great if you’ve applied there. Our a cappella groups travel the world for free (at least most do), and most of them have a high level of musicality. Most are competitive-audition, though, although a few aren’t. Or if that doesn’t float your boat, there’s the Hasty Pudding Theater if you are a dude who doesn’t mind drag, two on-campus opera companies (blow-your-mind good), the Gilbert and Sullivan Players (great singing, if crappy orchestra. fun group, though), and at least a couple musicals every semester.</p>
<p>Social life: I’ve found my own pretty good balance here–I spend maybe too much time talking to my friends!</p>
<p>Your chances: It’s definitely a sign that you’re competitive for top universities, but no sure thing for other institutions. I doubt there are any statistics to be had, so I can only offer one anecdotal piece of evidence. The only person I know to have gotten non-athletic likely letters from a non-Harvard Ivy was my friend X in high school. X applied early to Yale, and was deferred. They accepted her in the spring, and she’s there now. Dartmouth and Columbia also sent her likely letters at around this time of year. Harvard waitlisted her, and she remained on the waitlist, but they did not take her off of it. Princeton rejected her. I think she also got into Cornell and was waitlisted at Stanford.</p>
<p>You have NO idea how hard a few of us tried to get that damn orchestra to sound better…I’m actually kinda proud of how it sounded (relatively) when I was involved. With that said, it’s very hard to get the best players to play repeated notes and relatively boring and square rhythms when they can instead be playing Mozart or Mahler with Dunster or HRO.</p>
<p>Haven’t gone through every single post in this thread, but I agree, Ephman. For some people Williams may be a much better fit, but I never considered it because I wanted a diverse school with lots of resources as well as the intimacy of strong residential college life. The advantage of Harvard is that not only are all classes taught by full professors as in LACs (I’m yet to find a course other than expository writing that is not), there is also so much research opportunities and campus internships, and an incredible array of extracurricular so that there are professional groups for people who want to pursue something intensely as well as more laid back organizations. It is surrounded by the charm of a New England town that is Cambridge and the wider city of Boston with more excitement; there is the med school a short bus ride away, and other grad schools right around the corner should you wish for internship or more course selection.</p>
<p>The downside is that you get some people who make absurd assumptions about the school based on rumors and grapevine perceptions, both on what Harvard is and is not, especially in CC forums posted by high school students. For the OP: visit, talk to the current students and alumni from all the schools you’re considering (like our amazing exultationsy, Hanna, and WindcloudUltra:)), and go from there.</p>
<p>“You have NO idea how hard a few of us tried to get that damn orchestra to sound better”</p>
<p>That is really disappointing to hear! Back in the dark ages, the G&S orchestra was terrific. I was proud to sing with them. Mikado fall '97 was the best (and our Pooh-Bah went on to play the Phantom on Broadway).</p>
<p>princeton is fantastic, but their grade deflation (allegedly) is intimidating. I don’t know what the hell is going on because I received likelies from Dartmouth and Williams, but not Brown, Cornell, Penn, HYP, or even Swarthmore…really confused right now and can’t tell if my Dartmouth likely means anything for my chances at these other schools.</p>
<p>windcloudultra, I’ve heard the harvard alum network is 2nd to none, no?</p>
<p>Yes. That is the fantastic upside to being a Crimson. As a college alum, you also have access to HBS, HLS, GSAS alum among other constituent schools. In a way, it’s sort of advantage by virtue of Harvard being a giant school. </p>
<p>The HBS, HLS and GSAS students/alum are also grads of schools like Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Williams and so on, so in a way, you have access to those grads as well. That’s something that just does not exist at a Princeton or a Williams, since they don’t really have professional schools. </p>
<p>I hope that the above doesn’t come off sounding obnoxious or like a twat; I’m well aware of that possibility. When I write ‘access to those grads’, I don’t necessarily mean from a purely opportunistic or utilitarian way. I simply mean it’s an expanded pool of really interesting and amazing people you can claim to be fellow alum. I’ve met a number of alum from other schools since grad, and I’ve been impressed by many that I’ve met. They’re just interesting people to talk to. With that said, if/when it comes to considerations such as professional opportunities, having a few more people you can email or call up certainly doesn’t hurt.</p>
<p>Just remember though, it’s not the Harvard degree that I’m impressed with. It’s the stuff you write, create, produce, do and so on. It just happens that Harvard alum (and Princeton and Williams and alum from many other great schools) just do it at a very high level, with much higher than average rates.</p>
<p>D and W, from what I’ve garnered from CC, are much more likely-happy than other schools. (P, for example, doesn’t send non-athletic likelies.) Do your early writes/likelies bode well for “D-Day”? Of course–they mean that you were an impressive enough applicant that they didn’t need to keep on deliberating about you until April. But more importantly, they mean that you don’t need to worry about what the next few weeks have in store: you already have two incredible opportunities awaiting you!</p>
<p>As for the Princeton-related questions, like about grade deflation, I’m happy to answer questions on the Princeton board or via PM. (Don’t want to spam this thread!)</p>
<p>If financial aid is a consideration, Harvard comes out on top – at least from our family’s perspective. Several years back, one of the reasons my daughter choose Harvard was because it was 12k per-year cheaper than Williams. Ditto with my son last year between Yale and Williams, and also Princeton and Williams.</p>
<p>“Maybe they just had a couple of off performances/an off year.”</p>
<p>My data are from the dark ages, so you probably know much more than I do about what they sound like today. I keep track of how the Veritones, Kuumba, and Collegium are sounding, and that’s about all I can handle from 900 miles away. (The Veritones were great my senior year, but the voices are so much stronger now that most of my group would have serious trouble getting in nowadays…which of course is true of Harvard College as well!)</p>
<p>My sister had a similar choice (HYP vs Stanford vs Williams). She ultimately chose Princeton because of the community aspect and focus on undergrad teaching, which I think is something Williams does better than Harvard.</p>
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