<p>You should consider, absolutely, contacting Reed about your financial aid package. </p>
<p>Given your interests (PhD–English/maybe classics)and appreciation for Reed’s quirky traditions, Reed is <em>very</em> difficult to beat. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>However, should that not be possible, both the Classics Department and the English Department at Williams are excellent as I’m sure they are at Midd.</p>
<p>No worries here.</p>
<p>And all are feasible entrees into grad school.</p>
<p>Excellent / very informative posts! Resonates with our family. Like the OP, D is similar quandary–but between Swat & Kenyon. She DID write letters to Carleton and Reed earlier this week, declining their offers. Said it was a pretty hard thing to do. Hopefully that opens up a few more spots for waitlisted applicants in those schools…?</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your wonderful responses! I do just want to say one thing: I may have been a bit melodramatic about Reed; it doesn’t hold my heart the way I made it seem. I do love the idea of it, but I don’t love the reality of it as much. Like I said, I saw the same amount of intellectual passion at both midd and Williams, at least in the classes I attended. Also, there were a couple of very off-putting things when I visited Reed.</p>
<p>When I applied to schools and “ranked” them, so to speak, reed was my second choice behind a reach school that I was ultimately rejected by. The other reach schools I applied to occupied a separate sphere, I think. I never considered, “well, if you got into midd and Williams and reed where would you go?” simply because I didn’t think I would have those options. Happily, stressfully, I do.</p>
<p>Despite the fact that I felt comfortable at both of the schools, I’m kind of worried about being able to fit in… I’m not necessarily as liberal as a reedie, per se, but I’m not as conservative as the stereotypical students at midd and Williams. I mean, I saw guys in pink pants at both schools! Not really my cup of tea (I prefer interesting piercings). I’m sure I’ll be able to find a niche at either place, but would I still be a member of the community?</p>
<p>I really don’t think of Williams students as particularly “conservative.” It if a far, far, cry from Washington & Lee or Vanderbilt or even really a Colgate or something. Maybe the pink pants were ironic, because I don’t recall ever seeing anyone in pink pants or a popped collar during my time at or subsequent trips to Williams, and rarely saw guys in polo shirts or cardigans or anything like that. </p>
<p>I think of it as more of an outdoorsy / sporty / down to earth culture than a particularly conservative one, and certainly, there are plenty of Williams folks who are more on the alternative / liberal end of the spectrum (heck, four Williams undergrads just got arrested for disrupting Congress to push environmentalism, Williams has sent more kids to the Peace Corps than, I believe, any (or at least all but one or two) other liberal arts school over the past few years, and plenty of folks enjoy the annual Queer Bash and events such as that). You’ll find plenty of just plain quirky people too, trust me. I really wouldn’t sweat it. It’s not at the Oberlin / Reed end of the spectrum, but as I said it’s also not at the Washington & Lee end, either, I’d really put Williams somewhere at the middle of the pack. Remember, the school attracts a lot of outdoorsy, nature-loving people, who tend not to be as conversative as the impression you seem to have … now granted, there won’t be a ton of uber-pierced and tattooed types either (there will be some, but hardly the dominant campus culture), as I feel like the school just attracts more of the down-to-earth, well rounded, jeans-and-swearshirt type than it attracts anyone at EITHER extreme end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>I just came back from a visit to Williams and noticed no prep. There is a lot of outdoorsy and sporty. Some of the clothing I’m sure are expensive brands. William’s students seem to be focused students intent on improving mind and body and not really into stereo-typing others.</p>
<p>Ehhh, I know I’m just nitpicking now. I certainly didn’t see any popped collars at either place, and regardless, I’m not really one to judge by appearance (at least, I try not to). The only real difference, I noticed, was that midd students seemed to be more fashion aware, I think, and Williams was more laid back. At least, that’s what I saw. I don’t think that’s really a big factor for me, though. I like that philosophy, GTalum. It’s better to concentrate on the mind than the adornments of the body. </p>
<p>I was talking to my art teacher today and I realized that I don’t really have a “wrong” choice. I don’t think it would be possible for me to be miserable at either school. Plus, I know I’ll feel sooo much better having made the decision. My goal’s tomorrow.</p>
<p>Ephman, that peace corps figure was interesting. My cousin is an RPCV and I’m seriously considering going before grad school. Any campus culture that supports an organization a awesome a the peace corps is good with me.</p>
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Sorry, but are you serious? Your insecurity is just that: your own. It has nothing to do with the school, so I suggest you, you know, get over that. Reed is mostly filled with the weird, quirky kids that no one quite understood in high school—not exactly the normal “cool” image (although I think it’s a pretty cool atmosphere).</p>
<p>Not everyone smokes at Reed. I know many people here who have never touched a cigarette, cigar, joint, blunt, pipe, etc. So no, it’s not the rule. In fact, I personally don’t smoke cigarettes, and I certainly wouldn’t consider myself an exception to the rule.</p>
<p>I mean no offense when I say this, but you seem to be judging these colleges at a very superficial level at this point. I suggest you identify exactly what qualities of college are most important to you.</p>
<p>Um, I don’t want to be rude, but there’s a parenthetical statement right before the sentence that you quoted, “(This is sort of just a rationalization for talking myself out of going, but).” I realize that my own insecurities have very little to do with Reed’s quality; believe me, I know that it’s a great school, and no amount of tobacco consumption would change that. Nevertheless, if I’m insecure around my classmates, I won’t feel comfortable within the Reed community. (I know that my comment about smoking sounds derisive, but again, I was talking myself out of a less practical option, and looking for negative qualities). Trust me, saying goodbye to Reed is really, really hard for me, but I’ve convinced myself it’s for the best. Still, I haven’t been able to check “no” yet on the enrollment form.</p>
<p>Re: superficiality, that’s what I’ve had to resort to. This process has exposed a few of my flaws, one of which is indecisiveness. Because, from what I’ve seen, both Williams and middlebury are fundamentally very similar, at least in regards to what I’m interested in, I’ve been desperate to differentiate them in any way I can since I was so scared I’d make the wrong choice. After thinking and discussing (a lot), I realized that there isn’t one. I would never value clothing choice over academic passion and rigor, and I’m sorry that I represented myself that way.</p>
<p>Don,t worry. It,s your process. You’re right . They are both great schools . My s is a classics major at williams. Pm. Me if you wish.</p>
<p>A few corrections as well:
Reed has pretty loose requirements compared to most colleges. There are group requirements, yes, but those are easy enough to complete by the end of sophomore year. The group requirements are also very flexible (e.g. mathematics and foreign language both fall under Group D requirements, of which you only need two credits, or one year; similarly literature, philosophy, religion, and the arts all fall under Group A).
This is true, but that certainly would not limit your ability to explore fields other than your major in great depth. I’m a history major who is also taking/planning to take more upper level music, philosophy, and foreign language courses.
As someone already mentioned, studying abroad sophomore year is quite easy. I have a friend who is studying abroad for two semesters next year in Morocco and…Florence? I don’t remember the second location, but that’s not important.</p>
<p>Regarding the distance: I’m from Florida, so Reed is 3,100 miles away from home. While it was difficult at first, and I definitely was worried before I got here, it has been an amazing experience and I have grown significantly more than I would have at a state school.</p>
<p>I was (/am) also very self-conscious, but that has never been a problem here. While it is often easy to identify what strengths certain individuals have over me, the community has been so friendly and welcoming that it has never been a problem. The workload can be a bit overwhelming at times, but it is completely manageable; and while students at Middlebury and Williams both certainly have the same academic enthusiasm, the workload is not as intense, which could be either a positive or negative attribute, or both positive and negative.</p>
<p>I assure you I’m not pressing Reed; I just see many misconceptions and a lot of misinformation about the college, even on the Reed c/o 2015 Facebook page. I talked to current students at every school I was looking at when I was applying and it gave me a lot of insight that helped me make my decisions regarding where to apply/attend. Middlebury and Williams are both excellent colleges, and if they are better fits for you then I am sure you will do very well at either. 
Good luck with your decision!</p>
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<p>Except Middlebury: Two years ago: <a href=“http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2010.pdf[/url]”>http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>This year (Williams didn’t make the top 26): <a href=“http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2011.pdf[/url]”>http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2011.pdf</a></p>
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<p>To be fair, Middlebury went co-educational in the 1880s, and Williams was all-male until the 1970s. Prior to the widespread co-education movement of the '60s and '70s, co-ed schools were widely viewed as inferior to all-male colleges, and if you were a woman, the Seven Sisters were the schools of choice for ambitious women. Co-ed schools suffered in prestige partly because of their progressiveness. After the Ivies and elite LACs began accepting women, the playing field began to equalize.</p>
<p>In my opinion, this is one of the reasons that schools like Middlebury are rising to prominence. Being co-ed no longer sets them apart as second-class schools. Reputations take a long time to mature–decades. As we get further and further away from generations that recognized all-male schools as the pinnacle of higher education, we’ll see things start to even out. Sure, the list of Williams alumni from the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries is impressive. But the college you attend today isn’t the college you would have attended in 1940. I’ll bet that the list of accomplished alumni at Middlebury and Williams, from the 1970s onward, will look very much the same. Both schools are filled with exceptionally qualified students who, in most cases, are all but interchangeable and indistinguishable.</p>
<p>I was a tiny bit off with the Peace Corps figure. Williams is not listed for 2011, but on a per capita basis is right near the top for both 2009 and 2010 (many of the schools ahead of it, in absolute numbers, are substantially larger). Middlebury is also near the top (about 20 percent larger student body than Williams, but a few more volunteers each year). For example, Williams and Midd send a similar number of kids to the Peace Corps, and FAR more on a per-capita basis, each year than Brown, despite Brown’s uber-liberal reputation. So that is at least one sign that both are supportive of students who want to pursue a path that is a at least a little off the beaten path …</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2009.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2010.pdf[/url]”>http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2010.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2011.pdf[/url]”>http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/stats/schools2011.pdf</a></p>
<p>Actually cross-posted with Arcadia, hah. </p>
<p>I’d say even in the last 30 years, Williams has a substantial edge in terms of the success of its alumni vs. Midd. Midd has risen in esteem quite rapidly over the past 10-15 years, and that edge will likely narrow eventually, but even now, most kids who get into both Williams and Midd, choose Williams, by a fairly wide margin. I don’t think that should be dispositive – the same is true, in reverse, for Williams and Princeton, but I’d choose Williams over Princeton in a heartbeat, for example. But all things being equal, if you don’t have a strong personal preference for Midd or a particular reason for going there (like Midd’s excellent in languages), in a toss up situation Williams has the stronger reputation, the stronger alumni network, the stronger student body, and substantially more institutional resources. Those differences are not so dramatic to suggest that you should always pick Williams, but in a close call, Williams seems like the way to go …</p>
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<p>Differences are marginal–certainly more marginal than you’re making them out to be. But you go to Williams, so I respect your cheerleading (and hope you return the favor). Both schools keep cross admit data very close to the chest, but I can tell you that in 2000, a quarter of cross admits choose Midd over Williams. I’d wager that number has moved in Middlebury’s favor since then. [Edit–I just saw an old post on Ephblog saying the Midd win rate is now around 40%]. If you’re interested in languages, international studies, or environmental studies, Middlebury is the stronger of the schools. Art history, math, and poly sci are stronger at Williams. English and creative writing are comparable at both schools.</p>
<p>Go with your gut. Go where you feel most comfortable. Which campus spoke to you? Where do you think you’ll fit in best? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.</p>
<p>Well, that’s it. I’ve decided. I’m going to Williams! I am SO excited.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for helping me so much, and for steering me in the right direction when I veered in the wrong one.</p>
<p>This is going to be a great four years.</p>
<p>“… for steering me in the right direction when I veered in the wrong one.”</p>
<p>If I read correctly, you mentioned only Williams, Midd and Reed in this thread, hardly any wrong directions!</p>
<p>Ha, thank you! I know I didn’t really have any wrong choices, but I think that using fashion choice as any substantial factor is definitely a wrong direction!</p>
<p>Just like everyone always says, I ended up using my gut. I had a harder time picturing myself NOT at Williams, so I figured that that’s where I should be.</p>
<p>Enjoy Williamstown and congrats on a fine choice!</p>
<p>Kdurs11 – Welcome to the Williams family. I tried to be impartial, but I am happy you picked Williams. Sorry my last post was so basic and a mess. I was using my IPhone in the car (someone else was driving.) I just wanted to email quickly to offset the critical post before.</p>
<p>And using your gut is the best way in this instance. I really hope you’ll be happy.</p>