Winnowing college list/chances for competitive merit scholarships

Paying for College
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<p>I'm looking for help from those who have already travelled this journey in order to help my son winnow his college list. Also I read a lot of responses to mathyone from parents who wished that they had not encouraged their seniors to pursue so many competitive scholarships (Robertsons, ABDuke, etc.). I'd like to get your thoughts re: my S who is a NMSF and is planning to major in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering. He's a senior this year and will be applying soon (I know, we are behind the 8 ball).</p>

<p>Stats:
ACT 35 (math/science 36)
SAT 1 2270 (Math 800, CR 720, W 750)
SAT 2 Math II, Bio, Physics, Chem (all 800's), US Hist (760)
Unweighted GPA 4.0
Weighted GPA 4.4 (?? not really sure)
Rank: maybe 8 out of 600?
Rigor: 9 AP's so far (seven 5's on math/science/APUSH and two 4's on Engl/World Hist.)
Sr Year: 5 AP's (Engl, Gov, Macro, Psych, For. Lang.) + mandatory arts class + lin alg @ CC
Research: none
Essays: not too sure how stellar they'll be since he doesn't like writing them
Letters of Rec: I know that his teachers think highly of him but they probably don't know him very well, just what they see of him in class.</p>

<p>The websites tend to say that they're looking for: scholarship, leadership, character, and service.</p>

<p>Scholarship -- Beyond stats, this is where he's strongest with USAMO (1x) and USJAMO (2x) qualifier, USACO Finalist/camp participant (top 25 nationally), Physics Semi-Finalist 3x (top few hundred nationally), NACLO top 20 nationally (computational linguistics olympiad) and various random math competition and science olympiad awards. Also attended COSMOS summer science camp this past summer and month-long math camp last summer.</p>

<p>Leadership -- Jobs for pay: taught USACO computer programming class, tutored algebra student, wrote solutions to AIME-level and USAMO-level problem sets, wrote AMC 10-level problem sets, taught AMC 10 class at summer camp. EC: organized regional math competition at his high school as math club officer. Currently organizing the first ever puzzle hunt at his HS. Mentored/led younger students at summer math camp.</p>

<p>Service -- Weakest here. Participated in 2 two-week service trips during his freshman and soph summers. Helped with middle school math club his freshman year. Volunteered as a math tutor/teacher his frosh/soph year. Nothing his jr year nor this past summer. I guess he segued into paying jobs. </p>

<p>Character -- He has lots of character but not sure how to show it unless one wants to count 4 hrs per week involvement in church youth group. Also does two sports all throughout high school. Shows perseverance and commitment and hard work?</p>

<p>Asking for your advice re:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Thoughts re: S's competitiveness at HPMSC and CMU (I know that everyone has high stats and that for Ivies/elites you need amazing WOW factor). Not sure he has enough amazing ECs and, as noted above, especially weak on the community service.</p></li>
<li><p>Thoughts re: S's chances for competitive scholarships from public ivies, etc. (Michigan, Illinois, Duke, Rice, GA Tech, UMD, UVA, etc.). Ditto re: WOW factor. He does not like to write essays so I hesitate to encourage him to apply to all/any of these if he probably doesn't have the muscle to get any of these scholarships. Without merit $$, he's not likely to attend any of these. OTOH, I'm not sure if his USA Math/CS Olympiad accomplishments would attract any merit $$ at these schools or not.</p></li>
<li><p>Thoughts re: the more stats-based merit scholarships. He's thinking Minnesota - Twin Cities, Ariz. State, and maybe USC (still $38,000 even with the NMF schol so more expensive than any of the UC's for him). I was thinking I should encourage him to also consider Michigan State and Ohio State? He looked at UMD-College Park, Univ of Ariz, and Rutgers websites and comparatively didn't like the looks of their CS program. He liked Texas A & M's program but thinks that it's way too hot. Sigh...</p></li>
<li><p>Any other suggestions for where to apply for engineering-specific merit scholarships?</p></li>
<li><p>For anyone intimately familiar w/ the UC's: how deeply should we apply to be "safe"? Definitely UCB, UCLA, UCSD and maybe UCD. He didn't really care for UCI and UCSB when we visited but they both have good programs in his intended majors. Acceptances are so unpredictable now and, come spring, I'd really like for him to have at least one UC on the table. And CA state schools? We haven't made it out to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo yet. And SJ State is supposed to also have a good program and I hear that all of their graduates get snapped up by the Silicon Valley companies. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>I guess I don't have a feel for what's a good safety for him in this unpredictable environment and how many we should apply to. I hear stories of kids with one B getting shut out of UCB, UCLA, UCSD, and UCD!</p>

<p>Also, given that neither my husband nor I have any background in engineering nor CS, we've relied heavily on USNWR and parents on CC (especially ones from the engineering forum who sound like they frequently interview/hire for job openings).</p>

<p>MTnest: If you read this, do you mind sharing where your son got merit $$? His stats/interests were pretty much the same as my son's. (I'm not able to PM you.)</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post. Any advice that any of you can give would be much appreciated!</p>

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<p>What can you afford to spend per year, and will you qualify for need-based aid?</p>

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<p>I don’t have any excellent answers for you…but I will say…some of the most competitive scholarships have application deadlines that are before December 1.</p>

<p>How much are you looking for in aid? If you qualify for the CalGrant, I would say you son has many instate options. In addition USC gives 1/2 tuition scholarships to NMSF. Northeastern in Boston gives full tuition. Your so would qualify for excellent merit aid at University of Alabama. He could apply for the McNair Scholarship at University of South Carolina.</p>

<p>What about Cal Poly SLO?</p>

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<p>How much can you pay each year?</p>

<p>Are you saying that your EFC will likely be higher than what you can afford?</p>

<p>Alabama has very good engineering. All disciplines are ABET accredited. Brand new 900,000 square feet Science and Eng’g Complex. </p>

<p>Bama also has the nicest student housing around. Private bedrooms in 4 bedroom super suites with living rooms, kitchenettes, and 2 bathrooms. </p>

<p>Your son could be in Honors, and choose honors housing.</p>

<p>Your son should also apply to the highly competitive Computer-Based Honors Program. Only 40 students selected to this. These students are the ones who go on to win the national awards like Hollings, Goldwater, etc.</p>

<p>Gorgeous campus, friendly people, large number of OOS students, students from all 50 states…and Calif ranks #5 in sending students to Alabama. </p>

<p>Alabama has become the magnet for high stats students because of its huge merit scholarships. </p>

<p>Your son would get (these are ASSURED for his stats as long as he applies by Dec 15):</p>

<p>Free tuition from the school
2500 per year from Eng’g</p>

<p>Remaining costs would be about $13k per year.</p>

<p>OOPS…forgot that your child is a likely NMF</p>

<p>In addition to the above…he’d ALSO get free housing for frosh year
And…$3500 per year stipend
$2000 study abroad money
iPad (whatever is the latest one at the time)</p>

<p>Remaining costs would be very low. </p>

<p>Here’s a video and pics about the school…
<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;

<p><a href=“Titanium Chef | Home”>Titanium Chef | Home;

<p>Pics of the new Science & Engineering Complex begin on page 6, Student housing pics begin on page 12, </p>

<p>Alabama forum on College Confidential is VERY active.* You’ll get all kinds of info there and meet many other high stats students there and their parents. Both of my kids graduated from Alabama (both rec’d large scholarships). the older one has gone on to a PhD program at an elite univ. The other one is in med school.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Mom2collegekids:</p>

<p>Would the $2500 engineering/CS scholarship also stack on top of, say, the Academic Elite Scholarship?</p>

<p>That’s a long shot but definitely of interest to us!</p>

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<p>^^^
Yes it would. The 2500 is from eng’g. It stacks on top of anything.</p>

<p>Is your child applying to University Fellows?</p>

<p>I should add to the above…Alabama has over 600 NMFs on campus.</p>

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<p>Getting the big merit money from top schools is more difficult than getting into HPY is what has been said. Duke gives scholarships, wonderful ones to the top 3% of each incoming class. The ones who get the money are the ones not with the absolute best test scores but they also have to have something that they really want to have in their school. Yes, I think it is worthwhile to give it a try for their engineering school. It’s worthwhile for any and all of their schools, but be aware that say at CMU, they have a lot of 800s and top scorers in math, as that is where they are lined up to get in, even the top of the, with some kids turning down MIT and Harvard to go there for some of their programs, but not for others. The chances are better where he is an unusual pic–say for CMU Humanities and SS with their Computer program rather than their Computer Science division that gets the pick of the litter. The schools tend not to pay for types that are standing in line begging to get in.</p>

<p>I have often given the example of a young woman I know here from a catholic school in the NYC area. Every single top student in such schools here applies to BC. They can have a line around campus waiting to get in that fits that profile. So, though the young woman I know had absolutely sterling academic credentials and her ECs were terrific too, she did not get one of the coveted merit awards. Her parents called and were in a huff–what does one have to have to get one of them, if she was passed over?</p>

<p>Well, that very same year, I did know a young woman who did get one of them. From the midwest, where BC does not get many apps at all. Fine young woman, but didn’t hold a candle to the local girl, but she got the money. Geographic diversity is important to BC. I know the same in terms of generous aid and even a bit of merit from NYU when the kid comes from an area that adds the diversity. Both BC and NYU can fill their classes with high calibre NYC area kids. So, you look where he woud be a bit of an outlier. </p>

<p>Look at Emory, JHU, UMiami, URochester, Renaessler for some merit possibilities. Pitt is another strong contender as Case Western, and definitely Rose Hulman.</p>

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<p>Re: Bama. Yes, I’ve read many of M2CK’s posts and I LOVE what Bama is offering to NMF kids. But when I look at the top 100 USNWR for CS or Computer Engineering, I don’t see Bama anywhere on the list. Yet they have this Computing Honors thing? I know that few schools that offer free tuition will be in the top 25 for any major, but there are many in the top 100. Am I missing something or is Bama’s reputation in the CS/EE field not high enough to make top 100? I’m truly not trying to slam Bama here. Just wondering.</p>

<p>Re: finances. We always planned for him to be able to afford a UC education with working summers and 8 - 10 hours a week during the academic year – so $30,000 per year with no debt. If he goes to a tuition free/NMF scholarship-type school, the $$ can stretch to grad school if he wants. If he gets into a more expensive private and decides to go there, he’s looking at loans to make up a bulk of the difference.</p>

<p>Financial Aid: We don’t expect to get much except from the most generous elites (HYPS and possibly CMU). From what I understand, MIT, Caltech, and Cornell are significantly less generous so those look a lot less attractive. Won’t qualify for any in-state aid.</p>

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<p>Regarding UC’s - I think he will probably get in all of the UCs you mentioned and maybe get offered Regents at some of them. Regents isn’t a lot of merit money, but the early registration times are a huge benefit. Your child has excellent stats and don’t discount two sports a year as part of the ECs. If you really want to ensure a safety, apply to San Jose State. Cal Poly is a great school too, but less of a ‘safety’ because it is hard to get in their engineering program. Good Luck.</p>

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<p>“Look at Emory, JHU, UMiami, URochester, Renaessler for some merit possibilities. Pitt is another strong contender as Case Western, and definitely Rose Hulman.”</p>

<p>I saw that JHU has the Westgate Engineering but there are only 2 of those scholarships and they’re looking for science fair/research backgrounds – none of which my son has. Do you know if JHU gives out lots of other merit $$ (because I’m pretty sure that my son wouldn’t get the Westgate)?</p>

<p>Yes, I forgot to mention Pitt. Pitt looks good.</p>

<p>Does Rose Hulman give out merit $$? How big is it, population/campus-wise? I don’t remember what Harvey Mudd’s pop is but my son thought that HM felt like it was smaller than his HS – definitely a big turn-off for him.</p>

<p>Renaessler – do you need to be nominated by your HS as a junior? He wasn’t but it doesn’t look like his HS nominated anyone else either. Probably they couldn’t be bothered.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about the rest – I’ll check them out. Thanks for the suggestions, everybody!</p>

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<p>Rankings by major are generally nothing more than reputation surveys, so the schools in the “Top Whatever” are schools that have been known for that field for a long time. Alabama is more of an up and coming school in the tech fields.</p>

<p>If he likes Arizona or Arizona State, those would be great safeties, with excellent reputation in engineering and free tuition for NMF. Washington State would also be worth a look. All of those will be considerably cheaper than UC’s.</p>

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<p>JHU has the Beneficial award that is not limited to any specific major. Be aware that the top schools, the ones that make the lists, that if they have merit money, the chances are smaller in getting it. You have to move down the list, making sure the school has the merit money, more the better, and include schools where the chances are higher. MIT= no merit money. CMU= very little if any merit money for CS majors. And so it goes Do ask the school counselor as what merit money the UCs and other CAL state schools offer and how it looks for him. there. Georgia Tech has a great Presidential Award but that app has to get there early to be considered. You need to check that with any of the school as many of them do have early deadlines for merit money.</p>

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<p>My son has similar goals (CS) and stats, perhaps a bit lower and not HMF, so Ill just give you his list. </p>

<p>Berkeley
CMU
Mcalester
U of Minn
U of Wisc
U of Iowa
Drake
Temple
Alabama Huntsville</p>

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<p>I can’t remember exactly but my son was offered something like 10k at Rose Hulman. This was 4 years ago and his stats were nowhere near your childs.</p>

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<p>Rankings by major are generally nothing more than reputation surveys, so the schools in the “Top Whatever” are schools that have been known for that field for a long time. Alabama is more of an up and coming school in the tech fields.</p>

<p>Very true.</p>

<p>BTW…where on USNews are the “top 100” of CS depts even listed? Is that for grad schools? </p>

<p>Anyway…a school certainly doesn’t have to be in the top 100 to be very good. There are just too many programs in the US period. Heck, in Calif alone, there are over 25 very good programs…and that’s only ONE state in the union.</p>

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<p>ASU’s honors college and dorms are great. The school is HUGE but the honors programs really help with that.</p>

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<p>Not a scholarship, but as UC is affordable have your S take a look at the Comp Sci program at UCSB’s College of Creative Studies. [College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara - Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/computer_science]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/computer_science)</p>

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<p>SlitheyTove – I’ve heard that UCSB has a good CS program but I don’t know much about it. Is that UCSB’s only CS program – located in the College of Creative Studies (as opposed to C of Engineering or C of L&S, etc.)? What is the College of Creative Studies – is that like film, theater arts, video game development?</p>

<p>M2CK – Yes, the Top 100 USNWR list that I looked at is of grad schools. I also looked at undergrad, but it only showed the top 10. And, of course, there aren’t any NMF scholarship schools in the top 10.</p>

<p>And I’m not saying that I’m a slave to rankings, but in the absence of personal familiarity, I had to start with something. But that’s why it’s helpful to get feedback from all of you!</p>