Which one would you recommend for an OOS undecided major without financial aid? The main factor against Michigan is the sticker price, 56K/year vs 42K/year for Wisconsin. Does Michigan provide a great deal of value - either in terms of better job prospects after graduation or acceptance to graduate schools - compared to Wisconsin? For an undecided, who’ll be exploring subjects, does Michigan provide a greater variety than Wisconsin? Also, the advantage of L&S Honors - does it give an edge over Michigan LSA in any manner? Appreciate any information.
For what its worth, as an OOS parent with no aid, we have been thrilled with my son’s experience in Honors at UW and cannot imagine that spending another $10+ k a year for Michigan would have made sense for our family. My kid is a double major in Letters and Science, will complete Honors in the Liberal Arts requirements, and has had competitive government/research internships to choose from for this summer.
Honors at UW gets you Honors discussion sections, led by the Prof who teaches the course, an opportunity to develop close relationships with faculty (who have become my son’s recommenders for jobs and scholarship applications). Search this board for more threads on the Honors programs, several parents and grads have written often about how Honors at UW works.
My son was waitlisted for eternity at Michigan, so we never had occasion to compare the programs. Certainly, they are each premier research schools. Yes, Michigan has more “name” recognition around the country, but UW is well-known and well-respected and has only opened doors for my son. Whether Michigan name and opportunities are worth the extra money for you and your family is a personal decision.
Good luck, and congrats.
@midwestmomofboys Thank you very much. Does UW provide the option of minors, or only double majors? I find “certificate programs” but no minors.
Correct. Certificates are UW’s version of minors.
Only a few certificate options, not the same as minors. Majors may be more comprehensive (ie require more credits in the major) since no minor is required. A double major can be done without too much extra effort.
You need to decide which campus most appeals to you. UW has everything on one contiguous campus without needing to be bussed say from your dorm to the campus part with your classes. Do your homework- look at the probable courses you might want, the courses required for possible majors et al. I’m sure they are comparable.
Wisconsin and Michigan residents typically do not cross the lake (or go around through Chicago) for each other’s flagship and both get OOS students. Agree with post # 1.
Going way back, I chose Wisconsin Honors. I didn’t think the extra premium for Michigan and some others were worth it if you are paying mostly out-of-pocket, but that is a personal decision for you and your family. Wisconsin Honors is a strong, flexible program. Are you accepted to Michigan Honors as well?
To be very honest, I don’t think Michigan provides more variety; Wisconsin may even have a very slight edge, but on the whole, large, renowned flagships such as Michigan, Wisconsin, Berkeley, UT-Austin, etc. tend to offer the greatest variety of majors and research opportunities in the country. I know I personally benefitted from the variety, as I was recruited into a small, strong program after my second year in a larger, more traditional major; this wasn’t even officially a major at some smaller, excellent colleges. The variety at either Michigan or Wisconsin can prove so alluring that the course catalog functions as a distracting buffet of knowledge, if you aren’t disciplined and committed to your studies and goals. Honors has its own advisors that help you to stay on track and participate in research and enhanced study opportunities.
There will be some variation depending on majors, which you haven’t declared yet. So you may get a slight boost in some majors at Michigan, but then you may get a slight boost at Wisconsin in some majors (bio-sciences, sociology, African languages and literatures come to mind). Wisconsin performs very well at the graduate level in many departments; Michigan a little moreso:
http://publicuniversityhonors.com/rankings-academic-departments-private-elites-vs-publics/
Best of luck to you-
@anhydrite Awaiting Michigan LSA honors decision. So, as wis75 says, you have to do a double major in UW whereas in Michigan, you can do a major and minor. Wis75 also says that the double major is not too much extra effort, but I’m not sure if that the effort is same as major + minor. I thought that was the flexibility that Michigan offered that was lacking in UW.
You don’t have to do a double major. Wis75 isn’t wrong, either. I don’t think you should be looking at the caliber of schools such as Michigan or Wisconsin, and both with potential honors, and be hoping to get through without putting in the requisite effort. There are quite a number of certificates and additive programs at UW, and a myriad of ways to accomplish a strong program that includes more than one subject area (that is why I was careful to elaborate the variety of possibilities in the flagships above). And double majors aren’t always the best option, either, as I’ll demonstrate with my own experience:
As a freshman, I declared an honors English major (and also declared history later). However, I also found German, and UW’s traditionally outstanding department, quite appealing. So I did the honors German sequence for all four years. But it would have been nice if, somehow in my first two years, my English and German work would have complied (as per a minor option) without needing a double major.
Then, due to the caliber of my work, I was recruited into Comparative Literature. Not only did the foreign language reading credits instantly count toward my degree, but several languages were actually required to obtain the Comp. Lit. degree with honors. This would be quite similar at Michigan and other institutions, because it is a demand of Comp. Lit., and not of individual institutions per se. I felt Comp. Lit. addressed my advanced study goals better in several ways, but it pleased me too that all of a sudden, Wisconsin’s programs were able to combine my work in a comprehensive manner. And if you explore some of the many options as you narrow your chosen fields, more opportunities such as this may well arise.
It is great that you ask these questions now, btw. There may not be one perfect answer, but so far, I believe both schools could serve you well. Do you have any idea of your potential major(s)?
Edited to add: this was predominantly pre-internet (yes, I’m that old…) Had I the advantage of looking up potential majors, requirements, etc. at the given schools on the web, I may have been able to figure that out sooner. Still, even being OOS at a school as large as Wisconsin, I was able to find my way to a really satisfying academic experience eventually.
@anhydrite Thanks for the detailed reply. Looking at history major, with some depth in economics. That’s where the question came - how do you get the economics part in your diploma without a minor or a double major? Perhaps just the economics classes could be taken as many as needed, but I thought a formal minor would give a structure and also be officially certified.
A double major at UW in both History and Econ is doable, and would be great combination as both are highly ranked departments (top 15).
Most Letters & Science majors at UW require around 30 credits in the major, often with some breadth and depth requirements within the major. With most classes being 3-4 credits, that is either 8-10 classes in the major, over 4 years, so basically, 1 class in your major a semester for 4 years and maybe having to double up with 2 classes in your major one semester or so. Coming in with some AP/IB credits helps in meeting preliminary requirements in a major (A 4 or 5 in APUSH score gets 6 credits in History, at least when my kid started). Also, taking advantage of AP/IB credits to knock out some distribution requirements (my kid is still taking science since he came in with no science credits from testing).
As a double major, my kid has room in his schedule for a fun class he just wants to take, every semester, plus his majors and distribution requirements. The challenge for him is figuring out how to choose what to take in his major, there are so many incredible offerings.
Good luck to you, you can’t go wrong with either of your choices.
Well… that is a good question. My first instinct was to say that to have a solid grounding in economics, you may in fact want the entire major in addition to history, either at Wisconsin or Michigan. Economics isn’t really a great subject to take lightly, though of course, there is nothing wrong with taking a few courses.
However, I was curious. Both Wisconsin and Michigan excel in economics, and they also both have strong history departments. I would gather with your interests, a concentration in labor or public economics would more suit somebody with a history major. Chancellor Rebecca Blank is a labor economist, who specializes in poverty and public policy (she also led a center at Michigan on public policy before coming to Wisconsin).
I have two suggestions for you. One would be to contact the honors program directly, and see if they can help you devise a path of study that will address your needs at Wisconsin. This contact is one Wisconsin advantage you have at the moment, as you are not yet accepted to honors at Michigan.
It may be reasonable as well, as you have acceptance in hand to honors, plus your proposed study interests, to contact a faculty member briefly and politely with your query. There is a specific faculty member who may have some very good answers for you, or who may re-direct your query appropriately. If you go to the Economics Department website, click on the faculty page and look at who specializes in Public Economics. You should note there is one faculty member who would be very knowledgeable about what is possible in the College of Letters & Science. I will not divulge any information on the forum, but if you cannot find him, you may p.m. me here. Best of luck-
I think the Honors Program at UW has great flexibility. One can choose to take many or the minimum of Honors credits for various types of Honors degrees. Something to consider- the number of Honors courses/sections/opportunities available at all levels. For the STEM student there are math, chemistry, physics and Biocore sequences available. There are at least three different General Chemistry courses to choose from based on HS background and intended major. No “one size fits all” course availability in many departments.
A minor versus a second major- how are minors looked at? At UW you can do one major or do two full majors- much more impressive I would think than a minor. You do not have to do honors in all majors, btw.
I think there are two important factors to consider here. Eliminate the overall academics- they will be comparable, as will the peer groups. Finances are huge for most- unless paying the most is not at all a dent in the family budget. The other factor, assuming the more expensive school’s price tag is irrelevant to you, is the student’s fit with the school. If one school is a clear favorite to him/her- go there.
UW can be such a fantastic experience I do not see why one would pay more for Michigan. Employers and Grad schools will look favorably at each of the two. But- if your child is set on Michigan and the cost doesn’t matter then let him/her go to Michigan. Otherwise be happy with UW.
PS- professors are open to emails at UW. I have no idea of attitudes at Michigan. I know son’s Honors advisor knew how to work around the computer’s scheduling restrictions when he had SOAR. They do care about undergrads at UW.
I feel the same as wis75 – even before I confirmed my decision to attend UW, the honors program and staff in general during my visit to Wisconsin were very helpful and personal, and they were there again at SOAR if I needed them. I was surprised it could be so at such a large school.
I was being judicious re: emails to professors, and prefer not to post any personal info. on this forum. But yes, I agree: I also feel an admitted student in your situation is permitted to email a specific professor at Wisconsin about their potential path of study.
I would echo wis75’s comments about caring faculty (and administration) at UW. My son’s professors have been incredible, as have this advisors in both his majors and in the Honors program. I marveled when he got immediate email response after he emailed an Honors prof over the weekend about a paper prompt his freshman year – led to a series of emails, clearly from the prof’s phone, on Sat, talking through the issues. I went to a small liberal arts college and I wouldn’t have expected that kind of attention there.