Wise Parents! Some Advice Please...

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi there parents! I was hoping for some good advice on my college selection process and what you all would think of my chances, because the 'chances' forums are a little too crazy and filled with insane over-achieving 4.0 students. I think maybe parents have better heads on their shoulders when it comes to college advice because you have been through it before, with your children and what not. So here it goes:</p>

<p>Weighted UC soph/jun GPA: 3.4 (Maybe even a little less than a 3.4, eek)
SAT: CR-600, M-540, W-690, total 1830 - Retaking SATs in October, hoping to get at least a 2000 with my new studying methods etc. (would getting a higher SAT at least make-up slightly for a less-than great GPA?)
ACT: 29-English, 21-Math, 31-Reading. Composite = 27 (90th percentile)
SAT II's: Bio-570, Lit-Taking in Oct.
-Very competitive, high ranked school in Southern California.
-Took 3 APs junior year (4 in psych, 4 in composition...1 in US history) and am taking 3 APs senior year (AP Environmetal, AP Literature, and AP Government/Economics)
EC's:
-Been in award winning marching band for 3 (to be 4) years (As a leader playing the mellophone--the marching band equivalent of a French horn); Gotten several music related awards personally.
-Been in the selective Wind Ensemble playing the French horn (Are more rare instruments looked at more closely? I mean, compared to the billions of violin players...there aren't that many French horn players) for 3 (to be 4) years as a section leader
-Was in drumline for 2 years
-Member of Key Club, Jewish Cultural Club, German Club, Video Production Club
-Was VP of Animation Club for 2 years
-My art was picked to be showed at the local Art in the Park festival
-I am a talented artist (considering sending slides of art-couldn't hurt I suppose)
-Excel in German language
-President and founder of the new Women's Rights Club (my pride and joy), and VP of our school's Gay-Straight Alliance
-Volunteered at local library (not THAT many hours)
-Volunteering at local hospital at the women's hospital, I was the first one to be volunteering at the new 'labor and delivery' unit, and I also help in teaching siblings classes at the hospital for kids 3-7 and their expecting mothers on how to cope with soon-to-be siblings (I'm going to be writing one of my essays about how working at the women's hospital is pretty much the greatest thing in my life right now)
Next year as a senior I am taking: AP Gov/Econ, AP Lit, AP Environmental, Wind Ensemble, Marching Band (unfortunately it takes up a class period), Computer Programming class (thingy that is required to graduate from my school--reeeeally lame and a waste of time), and Trig.</p>

<p>Also, in my main UC essay (the big ol x amount of words personal statement about something that is not stated in my academic record), I will be writing about how over the summer I have realized the importance of education and that it shouldn't be taken for granted (because I did a lot less than stellar junior year...and quite well sophomore year). I'm scared about what reasons I should put on why I did crappy junior year (bad friends? no, I love my friends, perhaps we aren't a wholesome bunch, but still. lack of motivation? maybe, I DID try. etc.). So yeah, tough essay explaining bad grades.</p>

<p>I will be majoring in Women's Studies, and will hopefully make it to medical school where I hope to become an OB/GYN or maybe just a M.D. with a specialty in women's medicine.</p>

<p>These are my schools of choice:
Reach:
UC Santa Barbara
University of Washington (Seattle)
UC San Diego (thinking about not even applying)</p>

<p>Slight Reach/Match:
UC Santa Cruz
San Diego State
Western Washington</p>

<p>Safety:
Cal State Long Beach
San Francisco State</p>

<p>Any other school recommendations or comments or suggestions will be greatly welcomed. Well, thanks for any input you all will have!</p>

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<p>Frankly, I think that, with medical school likely to set you back $250k in the future, even considering the Washington State schools over those you have in California is crazy. Nice schools - my state and I know them pretty well - but the out-of-state differential (UW will cost you $32k a year) simply isn't worth it (and won't help you in any way in getting into med. school.)</p>

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<p>Oh yeah, along with the band thing I have been invited to play in the honor band/honor orchestra for my entire high school (as well as middle school) career if that means anything. Hoping colleges may look at the French horn and be like, wow, interesting instrument choice. But yeah, I love my instruments (French horn/Mellophone).</p>

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<p>mini: That is a really good point, never really thought about that, eek! And you are indeed correct, I know that if I got into my match/reach California schools (UCSC especially), I would ditch the Washington schools because I don't want to go to Washington THAT bad. But yeah, thanks!</p>

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<p>Santa Barbara is more of a match-reach. Admissions rate is 50%, so it's something to think about. I've seen people with 3.0's get in SB with a less-than-great SAT, while people with higher stats were rejected.</p>

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<p>Really? That's shocking. I have always considered Santa Barbara to be my biggest reach and have been thinking that even Santa Cruz may be a bit of a reach! x_x That's very interesting...</p>

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<p>Unless you are in a private prep school, a 3,4 Weighted gpa in a Calif HS, even a competivie one, is low, and cannot be compensated by strong SAT scores.</p>

<p>The Cal States are not highly regarded by med schools -- they prefer the University designation, so you need to aim there. Also, I would not recommend highlighting premed on your UC app bcos your record reads very active, possibly too social, and not enough time spent on academics. A 2000 is low for potential med school apps, btw.</p>

<p>Two of your ap's are AP lites: phych and enviro. A successful premed app would have AP Bio, Chem and/or Physics, and Calc on their resume. Unless your study habits change significantly, med school is is gonna be REAL stretch - you will need a ~3.5 in a Univ to be a candidate for med school. Since your HS gpa is much lower....</p>

<p>IMO, SB is a reach since gpa is the #1 factor for UC's. Santa Cruz is a safety.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for putting some things into perspective bluebayou. I believe I have the drive and motivation to work hard enough in college to get into med school, working at a hospital has become my main goal in life (and I don't mean being a janitor at a hospital...). Anyways, Santa Cruz as a safety? Don't know about that one. And yes, my GPA is rather low...but tons get into UCSC much lower I believe. Maybe I should play down my extra-curriculars so colleges don't think I'm TOO social, and mainly just put down music and my top choices of clubs? Still surprised that you would say Santa Cruz is a safety-I wish. </p>

<p>Anyways, I will be working hard at whatever college I can get into! :)</p>

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<p>Alison - go here: <a href="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Click on the link labeled "check your eligibility for admission". Fill out the fields in the calculator.</p>

<p>I did it based on the numbers you provided - assuming a 500 score on the SAT II English lit exam, and it came up showing you as UC Eligible. (The reason I entered such a low score is with the assumption that you really can't do worse). The point is, even if you totally flub the test, you will get into a UC campus, though not necessarily your campus of choice. </p>

<p>The only reservation is that I do not know whether the GPA you provided is the UC GPA -- you will have to read the instructions and recalculate, using the appropriate figures. You are fine with the current college choices you have - with the 2 CSU's as safeties plus Santa Cruz/ Santa Barbara. UC San Diego probably is a reach. If you are UC Eligible, you are virtually guaranteed admission somewhere. (Please - rely on the info on the pathways site - do not listen to contrary advice you get on this forum from anyone unfamiliar with the California system -- people get so caught up in the competitive nature of admissions that they forget that California guarantees admission to state residents who meet the minimum qualifications, and that those are caculated simply by the numbers. </p>

<p>Please, do not waste precious essay space apologizing for bad grades - a 3.4 is good enough for UC -- the minimum GPA is 2.8. With a 3.4, you also need combined test scores of 1882 -- your scores already total well above that. You may end up at Riverside, but you will get in somewhere. You need to use your essay to emphasize your strong points. The UC personal statement lets you have one big section and 2 small sections, and allot that however you want -- so if you feel you must explain the grades, then do it in a small section. Save the "big" essay for blowing your horn (no pun intended) about your talents and abilities. </p>

<p>So if you want to continue to play music in college - do a little research and find out something about the college bands and orchestras, and emphasize your commitment to music. If you have become fluent in German or want to continue to study German in college (a less commonly studied language in California) -- say so. There are no points subtracted because of what is in your personal statement -- only points added - and you don't get points added for offering excuses about your grades or a general essay about your attitude. They are looking for very specific criteria to add weight to your application -- these are all published on the pathways site. Give them what they are looking for. </p>

<p>It also seems to me that you might very well get into a more selective UC if they happen to need a mellophone or French Horn player -- so you ought to make sure that the essay readers are don't miss the significance of that. I mean, anything that you have won awards in is something to write about - I'm not saying to brag about your awards, but say something about how important these activities are for you. (Also, not on your list, but the UC Davis marching band is a very beloved tradition in Davis, quite special in the hearts of everyone there. --certainly it would be worth your while to find out what their current mellophone status is)</p>

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<p>Agree with calmom; nix bad grades essay. The other one abou tthe labor & delivery volunteer job sounds wonderful, do that one.</p>

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<p>I can't thank you all enough! This is far more input than I was expecting!</p>

<p>calmom: My UC GPA is about a 3.4, that is the one I used in my OP :) And yes, I am UC eligible...I just don't want to go to Riverside! :p And ha! I am actually getting on all the UC websites right now and e-mailing their marching bands, seems like a GREAT experience. And also, I'm not sure...my mother seemed to think that writing about a couple bad grades (D's I made up for A's) from junior year would be worth talking about...like how I'm more mature now...I'm not sure about that. Realistically, writing about my instrumental music career sounds like a very good idea, as I have SO much to say about it being involved for billions of years :) Thanks again!</p>

<p>SBmom: I'm leaning more towards that direction now too, makes sense to write something you're passionate about! Thanks!</p>

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<p>I am not one of those familiar with the UC app process, which is different from the "general" process. But emphatically agree with SB and calmoms to nix the bad grades essay. Do the UC's allow for the GC to comment on that? that owuld be the place, or a teacher rec? Or, do they have a place - outside the 3 essays - for additional info? If it should be commented on at all - that would be where. Listen to calmom and SBmom about whether you should even do any of these ideas. But DON'T waste your essay opportunity on the grades.</p>

<p>I have seen kids use their essay to "explain away" (not at UC tho) and it has not worked.</p>

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<p>jmmom: I don't know the GC's place when it comes to applying, no one at my school are really familiar with the GC's...including myself, and also, UC's and CSU's do not consider recommendations unfortunately (too many applicants). Thanks!</p>

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<p>You should consider adding a couple of smaller private schools (if the finances can be worked out) because you have lots of strengths that would be more visible in a more holistic process, rather than a computer/stat-driven UC process. I think you will have good chances anyhow at the UC schools, but stuff like passion for what you do is a bit harder to get across in the UC app.</p>

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<p>Would you have any suggestions for the smaller schools? Quite frankly I know NOTHING about LAC's and all the other smaller schools across the country, it'd be nice to get an idea of what is in range. I have looked at Oberlin, but it seems like a bit of a stretch, and I also have looked at Smith, also a stretch. Anyways, yeah, any advice on what may suit me? Thanks again.</p>

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<p>I would ask your coach/teacher of marching band/music if there are universities or colleges that need your talent. I have heard of a few occassions where that was the hook that landed the big fish. You might make a few calls yourself. </p>

<p>Let me be a little harsh - I wouldn't want a doctor with your scores...if you are serious about medical school you need to seriously revise your approach to learning. I am not saying don't do it or you can't do it; I am telling you that the effort needed to get into medical school will be significantly harder than what got you an 3.4 in high school (unless I am missing some major issue that will soon go away.)</p>

<p>As for other LACs you can do a search but I would think Smith is a outside reach....There are numerous other schools, Lake Forest in Chicago for one, another choice would be to go to a community college and transferr into a UC.</p>

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<p>All the schools on your list are big, big, big. Since you aren't familiar with LAC's and privates, you should visit some Southern California LAC's and smaller universities to get a feel for whether or not you would like the smaller, more personal environment. Occidental, Scripps (reaches), and Whittier (safety) Colleges have less than 2000 students (although Scripps is part of the Claremont Colleges which raises the # of students in the consortium to about 5000). Universities between 2500 and 5000 undergrads that may help with the smaller feel are Loyola Marymount (match, and has rolling admissions), Chapman University (match, and nice arts programs), and University of Redlands (match and rolling admissions). Assuming need and merit aid (all offer some merit) could bring the cost down to the equivalent of a UC or CSU, you may find the smaller schools an attractive route toward your goals.</p>

<p>If you're interested in getting out of state and IF you find that these types of schools appeal to you, you can start to identify others across the country (don't forget a few in northern CA) that have similar characteristics (some I'm familiar with: Beloit, Lawrence, Coe, St. Olaf, Lake Forest - upper midwest; Clark, Mt. Holyoke, Trinity - northeast). Others may chime in with some southern region and Texas schools.</p>

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<p>I hope this doesn't appear harsh -- I'd like to just get to the point without filling the page with words. So please accept this in the spirit that it is intended: a genuine desire to help someone who hopes to apply to medical school. </p>

<p>Granted, there is very limited amount of information that can be gleaned from what you've told us so far, but from what I have read, I think you may be going about this all wrong.</p>

<p>First of all, I don't think majoring in Women's Studies is a good plan for someone intending to apply to med school. You will need very strong math and science skills to be competitive as a medical school applicant. You'll be competing against the best and the brightest who have taken rigorous courses in chemistry, biology, physics, calculus and statistics. Women's Studies--at any university--will not give you the background you will need to be competitive. </p>

<p>Second, you have strong reading and writing test scores, but your math and science scores are quite low for a future med school applicant. Your good verbal scores indicate to me that you have ability to read and write well, which will defintely come in handy in tough science courses. But you are behind in math if you are only taking trig as a senior. A very large number of students planning on medical school took trig sophomore year, and have completed a year (and sometimes two) of calculus before entering high school. And given that most science classes have math pre-reqs, the whole process can get very bogged down if you can't take the science class because you haven't had the calculus/statistics class, etc. </p>

<p>Third, you seem to be focusing on very large schools where there will be a great number of distractions as well as (possibly) the least amount of interaction not only between professors and students but amongst the students themselves (academically). Not that it isn't possible to form study groups or learn to beat down the doors of advisors and profs at a large school, but that takes a great deal of persistance and determination. Self-starters can do well in a class of 800, but someone with a long list of extracurriculars like yours and a somewhat "up and down" grade history might be better off at a smaller school with smaller classes and easier access to outside help. (I hear Santa Cruz has smaller classes, especially in bio, than the other UC's but I don't know if that's true. Worth checking out.)</p>

<p>If you go the public school route, you could very well end up going for 5 years, so that should be a consideration. If you go private, you will need to get through it in four years unless you are made of money or get some good financial aid. So that should also be a consideration. If you need to spend some time getting up to speed in math and science (and I think you do), and could benefit from more personal attention than you will get at Cal State or a UC, senior year of high school and community college are the cheapest ways to go. Also, summer between senior year and college is an option for getting a semester of calculus/pre-calc under your belt. </p>

<p>There are many excellent LACs with good reputations for preparing their students for post-graduate work...too many to name. They are not all "top-tier" in terms of admissions requirements. Loren Pope's "Colleges That Change Lives : 40 Schools You Should Know About Even If You're Not a Straight-A Student" is a well-known place to start, but there are more than just these 40. </p>

<p>Now, having said all that, looking at your scores and your list of classes for senior year and your intended major, I am scratching my head on the medical school thing. You seem to have interests in areas that you will probably not have any time to pursue if you want to be a doctor. Or maybe your high school doesn't offer AP Bio or AP Chemistry. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. :-)</p>

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<p>Ugh, it feels like my brain is going to collapse. x_x. All I know is that I'm going to be trying as hard as possible in my classes this year (had a sort of epiphany over the summer) as well as in college. I wish I knew more about the medical school route, as I have only a conceptual idea of what it takes, and the requirements. I don't even know where to start when it comes to looking up information on the path to take! And yes, I am not the greatest in math or science (I know chemistry is HUGE, but I think I would fail miserably in an AP chem class, especially in a year when first semester grades matter tremendously), I also don't know where being great in english can take me (I didn't do that great in the AP english class, but I am innately good at the english stuff, hence a 4 on the exam, but C's in the class). Overall, I feel rather unsure now.</p>

<p>Also, I definitely KNOW that women's studies has zero to do with women's medicine, but alas, perhaps that is my problem.</p>

<p>Basically, I feel kind of lost now, haha, and I don't know if it would make much of a difference to say that the one school out of all that I want to attend is UC Santa Cruz (always been my dream school, though have become dismally aware of the recent difficulties of getting in). </p>

<p>I think that's great advice, to take a math class next summer before college, I'll check that out.</p>

<p>Maize&Blue: (my sister attends UMich, I'm certain those are the colors :D ) Yes, Occidental and Scripps would be good schools to visit for the LAC feel, I'm still unsure if I would really like such smalls schools, but I'll have to visit just to be sure! Thanks!</p>

<p>MrB: Thanks for the comments.</p>

<p>1Down2toGo: Thanks for being so frank, and yeah, I suppose it does sound like I may have my head in the clouds, but I do think I have the motivation. I'm going to try and look at my intended college route in a different perspective, and see if I what I really want is to go to medical school (if I can get in), you're right, according to what I've written down, it wouldn't look like I'd want to become a doctor.</p>

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<p>i would disagree with the "don't major in womens' studies" statement...as long as you take the premed sequence and do well in it, you should major in whatever you like, under the assumption that you'll do better and have a higher gpa in something you're interested in, and it will make you a more unusual candidate. </p>

<p>also, please keep in mind that there are MANY ways to work in a hospital, and most of them don't involve medical school. On the more science oriented side, you could be a nurse, a physician's assistant, or a pharmacist. You'd need varying amounts (but still significantly less than for med school) of math/science background to be an occupational or physical or respiratory or music therapist, a social worker, a doula, a psychologist, a public health educator, a school health teacher, or hospital administrator (working more with applying for and spending grants, human resources, etc.) Or you could study health policy and work for a governmental organization or think tank that changes how women fit into the medical establishment. </p>

<p>All I'm trying to say is there are so many ways of doing good, and you will find one that plays to your strengths as well as your interests. Don't get too caught up in med school plans.</p>