<p>well at least Yale is clear in its requirements. No misunderstandings possible there.</p>
<p>The interesting thing about that Yale policy is that it sure looks like they care about the range of test scores, notwithstanding the “superscoring” policy. Which somewhat confirms my suspicion that colleges superscore for purposes of reporting their student statistics, but that they take a peek at all of the scores for decision purposes.</p>
<p>Sacchi, I also had 35 ACT and very good SAT II’s (790, 780), but a so-so SAT I (2190). I decided to take the chance in sending the SAT I along with the ACT in order to have the SAT II’s seen by the colleges, hoping that they would use the ACT as the higher score. I was accepted to, and am attending, Princeton this fall.</p>
<p>water_man, only on CC would someone refer to SAT 2190 as so-so… </p>
<p>Thanks for the info, and congrats on Princeton.</p>
<p>Yale may be looking at all scores and not superscoring…but may also want all of the tests to take a closer look at the kids who take a test 4-5 times. It can help with the process of weeding out kids who do well on tests due to excessive and expensive coaching…or…the perfectionists.</p>
<p>There are many on this site that disagree with this analysis, but I have heard it expressed by admissions officers at a couple of top LAC’s (one of which is SAT optional now.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But there are many who don’t and we’re better looking. 
</p>
<p>I’d go farther and not limit it just to the 4-5 time testers. IMO they don’t ask for “all scores” if they are not going to consider them in the admissions decision. Why waste their time? And once they see the “lower scores”, well…you can get the skunk out the jury box but the smell lingers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Best post ever.</p>
<ul>
<li>I am aware that at some schools the adcom never sees the outlier scores. At those schools , obviously , my post above is total crap. ;)</li>
</ul>
<p>edit: Usually these are schools that super-score prior to the adcom’s getting the file. A “clerk/aide/student assistant” just gives them the highest numbers and they never see the lower numbers. (In the dark ages I believe CWRU did that.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Two best posts ever!!! LOL</p>
<p>curmudgeon, do you think the possible negative impact of seeing the 2020 and 2220 SAT scores outweighs the possible positive impact of seeing the 750 and 780 subject test scores for the schools where subject tests scores are not required with the ACT?</p>
<p>S has gotten B+, B-, and B in honors math classes, so I thought it might be good to have the 750 Math L2 score to show that he actually is good at math. Or is that too dangerous because it points out the obvious, that he doesn’t apply himself in his classes as much as he should? He also got a school district award for being one of the top scorers in the AMC12 competition in the district, although not high enough to qualify for AIME, beating out many an A math student. He is thinking about majoring in economics and/or political science. I would think that being seen as a good math student would be seen as good for economics, but less so for poli sci.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can’t stop laughing!</p>
<p>It’s the outlier score that bugs me. The 22-whatever is fine. I wouldn’t let the lower score see the light of day. I’d use the ACT and the Math award and go with that. </p>
<p>But I’m coming from a different place. My kid was willing , actually insistent, on ditching schools that required SAT Subject Tests. She had a very busy schedule- (band, sports, club leadership)- and just decided there were plenty of schools that were “just as good” for her that didn’t require SAT Subject Tests. (Edit: As usual, I was on the other side of that particular argument at the time as some of my favorites for her - Dartmouth and Williams-were on the other side of that line.)</p>
<p>A kid who has their heart/sights set on a school that requires all tests, well…nothing ventured nothing gained. But if the kid had a choice- don’t let them see the lower score.</p>
<p>Looking closely at sacchi’s OP, of the 200-point improvement from one SAT to the next, 150 points came from the writing test, which many colleges disregard or under-weight. If you look at the SAT Is on a 1600-point scale, it’s the ACT that’s the outlier, not the SATs. Also, a 750 on the Math II test is not a super-impressive score; it’s around the 75th percentile of all test-takers.</p>
<p>For those reasons, in sacchi’s kid’s position I would want to deep-six all of the SAT scores, and go with just the ACT. I think if a hyper-selective college sees both sets of scores, it’s the ACT that is going to be disregarded as the outlier.</p>
<p>Good analysis, JHS.</p>
<p>JHS – you’re right (as usual); CR/W is 1410, which doesn’t compare to the 35 ACT. Since the 1410 is the improved CR/W score, I’d just go with ACT. This is the strategy we would have followed had S2 not improved his CR/W the second time – he would have taken the ACT. His school has found that IB full diploma students tend to do well on it.</p>
<p>If the OP wants to use the 750 Math Level II to offset math grades, I’d say do it. S2 is using that strategy for math.</p>
<p>Just be sure the HS doesn’t send the SAT scores or include them on the transcript.</p>
<p>The point is, though, that if the college doesn’t accept Score Choice for the SATs, he can’t use the 750 Math L2 to offset anything without giving them all his scores on all the tests. And I think, on balance, from a test-score perspective he’s better off with just the ACT.</p>
<p>Realistically, though, his grades are going to hurt him at the uber-selective colleges anyway, and I’m not sure having a 35 ACT will offset that. Applicants who outperform their test scores generally do better than applicants who outtest their performance. And below the uber-selective college level, ALL of his test scores are GREAT, so no worries.</p>
<p>Such a timely question, Saachi. We’ve been wondering the same thing.</p>
<p>No other college that I’ve looked at is as clear as Yale (and that’s very recent language on Yale’s site, as far as I know). Those that are rejecting score choice just say they want all SAT and ACT test scores. Here’s how I would propose one could read this:</p>
<ol>
<li>a student who intends to rely on SAT reasoning and SAT subject tests must submit all SAT scores, but </li>
<li>a student who intends to rely only on SAT subject tests plus the ACT, must submit all subject test scores and all ACT scores. No SAT reasoning test scores need be submitted.</li>
</ol>
<p>Am I crazy, or is it reasonable to read this as a situation governed by what test the student intends to RELY ON for admission?</p>
<p>For anyone who cares to offer more advice, I have a child very much like Saachi’s. She has a not-phenomenal GPA from a super competitive school. Test scores are a 35 ACT and SAT subject test scores of 780 (Lit) and 750 (US History). Unlike Saachi’s kid, mine has a 650 in Math II, in addition. The “experimental” SAT I(taken for practice when she thought score choice was the rule) was 2120 (CR 770, M 620, W 730). She’d like to use the ACT score, but would like to submit the 780 and 750 to schools like Yale, Pomona, Georgetown - all of which reject score choice. Should she retake the Math II and try to redeem herself, or just roll the dice with the 35 and no subject tests? Or should she retake the SAT I to try to match her ACT? With some studying, her math score would go up. It would be a shame to have her branded as a compulsive test taker, as she is anything but that.</p>
<p>A 35 ACT standing alone got my kid into her reachiest reaches in 2006. And they were pretty reach-y coming from Hooterville. The way Yale is set up now, just use the ACT. </p>
<p>At other schools use the same analysis. If they have to “send all if they send any”, just send the ACT. If you can pick and choose, then do so.</p>
<p>BTW, who thinks next year they’ll close this “hole” and require all tests taken, both SAT’s and ACT? If I was a betting man…</p>
<p>OP - Have you checked to see if the high schools puts scores on the transcript? This has been an “issue” for some CC members. If they do…adcoms will see the scores, anyway.</p>
<p>Are the math class B’s semester/quarter grades or final grades? These grades appear to be the real issue…so…are science grades or any other math grades better? That will help…</p>