Withdrawing other apps after ED

Parents Forum
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<p>You are correct. They could rescind an acceptance. However, this opens up a can-of-worms that could be the college’s nightmare. My guess is that a letter from a high powered law firm would put an end to most problems. That school would not want to risk public or legal scrutiny of what kids with poor senior grades were NOT rescinded nor a review of what their ‘standard’ is as well as how diligently and fairly it was applied. Further, a college would not want to risk a precedent being set in the area of rescinding ED acceptance. A ED application is a contract with the contract needing to protect both parties. If there is a clause that a college can rescind a student based on some reduced standard of performance is there an equal clause if the school or a specific department stumbles?</p>

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<p>“You are correct. They could rescind an acceptance. However, this opens up a can-of-worms that could be the college’s nightmare. My guess is that a letter from a high powered law firm would put an end to most problems.”</p>

<p>Guess again. Each year, we see posts on CC from unhappy students who are surprised that their dream school really did rescind their acceptance after their grades took a major hit.</p>

<p>Each year, there are articles by college admission officers saying that, yes, they did have to rescind admission of some students due to bad senior year grades.</p>

<p>All colleges accept students based on the students’ finishing senior year with acceptable grades and course loads. </p>

<p>I don’t think there’s anything a high powered lawyer can do about this.</p>

<p>"The University of Colorado at Boulder rescinded admission for 45 students in 2006. The University of Washington revoked acceptances for 23 freshmen with poor final grades, and sent out 180 warning letters telling students the school was unhappy with their senior-year effort. </p>

<p>Philip A. Ballinger, Washington’s admissions director, sees it as “a matter of fairness.” </p>

<p>“If certain students decided they didn’t want to be students their senior year, we shouldn’t have them here,” he explains. Like many others in higher education
, Ballinger is concerned that the emphasis on college admissions is making 12th grade “a wasted year.” </p>

<p>Colleges don’t receive final transcripts until June or July and may revoke admission as late as July or August–after students have given up spots at other colleges and have few options. "
<a href=“http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Slackers,+beware!+That+fat+envelope+is+conditional.+If+your+grades…-a0175524244%5B/url%5D”>http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Slackers,+beware!+That+fat+envelope+is+conditional.+If+your+grades…-a0175524244</a></p>

<p>"Each school has its own version of the letters that Texas Christian University admissions dean Raymond A. Brown just sent to about 110 members of the expected freshman class of 1,600. They are missives he calls “FOG,” or “Fear of God,” letters.</p>

<p>One version goes to about 100 and is relatively mild, asking for a letter “detailing the reasons surrounding your senior year performance.” A tougher version, which goes to about 10 students every year, demands an explanation and starkly says: “Please understand that your admission to TCU is in jeopardy.”</p>

<p>Of those 10, he said, about half won’t respond and will be tossed out, and a few of those who do respond will say, “Gee, I don’t know what happened,” to which Brown said he replies: “Gee, that’s just not good enough.” Out they go.</p>

<p>The number of students who see their acceptances revoked might be small, but revocations happen routinely at any school that considers itself selective, counselors and admissions directors said. Often, those who find themselves tossed out are notified so late in the summer that their only option is a community college.</p>

<p>“I don’t think it [admissions revocation] is that rare if there is a significant drop,” said Mary Lee Hoganson, a counselor at Homewood-Flossmoor High School in the Chicago suburbs. “. . .I do indeed have a file in my office called ‘Senioritis,’ with letters I’ve collected over 30 years of college counseling where admission has been revoked. We are talking about maybe one or two students a year.”
<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53287-2004Jul15.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53287-2004Jul15.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>along the same lines, I have a logistical question: If a student is accepted ED, for example, on Dec 10th, and the FA that comes out on Dec 17th is crappy at best, it was always MY assumption that the student was still bound by the ED agreement to withdraw ALL other apps including their instate public…</p>

<p>But… I have read on CC that the only condition for withdrawing from ED was a FA issue and the only acceptable justification/alternative for withdrawing was if one was going to attend their instate public? Not my understanding…</p>

<p>Can someone clarify?</p>

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<p>“. I have read on CC that the only condition for withdrawing from ED was a FA issue and the only acceptable justification/alternative for withdrawing was if one was going to attend their instate public? Not my understanding…”</p>

<p>Insufficient financial aid (and for colleges that promise to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need, it’s the school , not the parents who determine this) is one acceptable reason. Even for such a reason, it can be a struggle to be released from ED contracts according to posts I’ve seen on CC from people who’ve been in that situation.</p>

<p>Other possibilities would be things like a documented family emergency such as if a student provided proff that a parent had been diagnosed as being terminally ill since the student applied, and the student wants to attend a nearby college so to be able to help out. </p>

<p>Saying that one wants to back out of ED because private college X offered full ride merit aid while the ED college met 100% of demonstrated need (but that didn’t amount to a full ride) isn’t sufficient for one to be allowed to back out of ED. Often both colleges will rescind one’s admissions if one tries that.</p>

<p>Many in state public schools don’t care whether students break ED contracts elsewhere, so won’t rescind admission if they learn a student backed out of another school’s ED.</p>

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<p>NSM: Understand the private school v private school issue…both colleges will rescind…</p>

<p>But if a student is required to withdraw other apps, how would they even know if they were accepted to their instate public? seems like it puts the kid between a rock and a hard place?</p>

<p>add to the mix that there are some ED schools who will give you your admission decision in December but not provide your FA package until much later on…</p>

<p>My question is purely in comparison to publics…but you did answer my post…</p>

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<p>^ (whoops a few replies back now) … schools CAN NOT share lists of applicants … they can however share lists of accepted students. The ED school informs other schools of their ED accepted students … and those schools can decide to check their applicant pool. It is believed the IVY league schools share their list with the other IVYies and other top 20 type schools. </p>

<p>While I do not have any inside knowledge on this topic it seems to me the incentive for the schools is to cooperate with each other (which is why they can not leagally hsare applicant lists … it could diminsh competition for the applicants). Either a school can ignore other schools ED agreements and fight over students and face other schools trying to steal their ED students in return … or they can respect the other school’s ED agreement hoping the other schools will do the same in return. To me honoring each others ED agreements seems to be the only way to avoid a lot more chaos in the process from the school’s perspectives.</p>

<p>That said … schools do let students out of their ED agreement for financial reasons (and even other reasons) but typically to let them attend a school such as their local State U (cheaper and not a competitor). So an applicant trying to back out of IVY league or NESCAC league ED acceptance is likely shut out of the majoroty of other Northeast top schools … there are certainly a lot of other great schools … but backing out of Dartmouth ED to accepted the RD offer from Williams is not likely to occur.</p>

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<p>rodney–if you think you might want a FA package from your instate school…then you should not apply ED anywhere!</p>

<p>It’s as simple as that. You make your choice when you apply ED somewhere, and it’s obviously not a good choice for everyone.</p>

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<p>mommusic: that was my assumption (and my advice always)…before coming to CC; and this question was referring to an associate, not for my family…</p>

<p>but it seems as though there are definitely different versions of this…and given the economic changes of the last year, not sure as clear cut as it was in the past…</p>

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<p>It seems entirely reasonable that the colleges might share their ED acceptance lists with several colleges that have a large proportion of cross-applicants. There is no downside from the college perspective to doing this. I can’t imagine any one student is so precious to the colleges/unis that they would “haggle” over a student. ED is a process that benefits the colleges and universities first and foremost. I’m not certain, but I do believe that the ED acceptance comes with at least an estimate of financial aid predicated on the final “numbers” on the CSS/FAFSA. I don’t think any student, unless they were full pay, would sign up for ED under a condition that they would not know financial aid until spring, but I could be wrong…</p>

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<p>This is an ED thread and you serve up info about rescinded admissions at two non-ED universities? Just awful. </p>

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<p>The bottom line is that I’m not going to have any substantial pertinent data that supports my opinion other than the argument stated and you’re not going to have any substantial pertinent data on this either. So, it just gets down to opinion. Now, if you believe that money and power don’t influence decisions that’s fine … enjoy the dream. </p>

<p>Naturally, before admissions are rescinded, colleges send letters to those applicants asking for an explanation as to failing grades. I’m guessing that nearly any student who replies in writing that he or she is experiencing issues regarding depression and that he or she is seeing a doctor for treatment (pretty darn easy to set and and do a session before final grades are in) is NOT likely to be receiving bad news back from that college anytime soon. But that’s just me.</p>

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<p>rodney–sorry if I wasn’t clear; I didn’t mean “you” make your choice, I meant “one” makes ones choice. But who says that anymore? :)</p>

<p>But re high-powered lawyers, there still seem to be some people who think they can do whatever they want and get away with it by having their lawyer write a letter.</p>

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<p>“This is an ED thread and you serve up info about rescinded admissions at two non-ED universities? Just awful.”</p>

<p>The bottom line is that schools rescind admissions based on bad senior year grades. All accepted students – including ED-accepted students-- are told that their acceptances are contingent on their senior year grades and coursework. Students who don’t take that seriously do so at their own risk. There have been plenty of students who’ve had admissions rescinded because of bad senior year grades.</p>

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<p>I know of one situation that illustrates the effect of ED. A few years ago, at a school I know, 10 seniors were caught with marijuana on a spring break class trip out of the country. The school decided that it had to inform all the colleges to which they had applied. Spring break coincided with college acceptances, so by the time the school informed the colleges the colleges had already accepted or rejected the students, but (except for ED) none of the students had accepted the colleges’ offers of admission yet.</p>

<p>Only a couple of the colleges withdrew offers of admission (most didn’t). One of them (a college with a deserved reputation for recreational drug use) had accepted three of the kids RD and one ED. The RD kids simply had their acceptances withdrawn (which was very sad, since at least two of them would have chosen to go there). The ED kid’s acceptance was not withdrawn, but he was told he would have to defer enrollment for one semester, and spend a semester on probation. Obviously, the college took account of the fact that the ED kid had no other options, because he had withdrawn all other applications when his ED acceptance came. Ironically, he probably suffered the harshest net punishment. The other kids simply went to other colleges that had accepted them and that didn’t withdraw the acceptance. Even though those colleges may not have been their top choices, objectively there wasn’t a whole lot of difference, and of course after the initial trauma had passed, and after they actually showed up, the RD kids were all perfectly happy with their substitute colleges. ED kid had to twiddle his thumbs for a semester, go through counseling, and suffer the indignities of probation – in an environment where you can probably get a good buzz off the second-hand smoke.</p>

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<p>My understanding is that if you are accepted ED and are waiting on the FA package, you don’t have to withdraw until you have time to review the FA package (and do any negotiations that may be necessary). </p>

<p>However, about only being able to apply to a state school – what about those schools whose FA packages are the golden lottery ticket? One could get an ED at say, Wesleyan, not be able to afford it, but win the lottery at Havard and get a package that is affordable. Yes, I know – don’t apply ED then – but for those who do and need good FA, is limiting where the student applies post-ED cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face?</p>

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<p>We know of a couple situations where senioritis (drop in grades) cause a mandated gap year by one school and loss of major merit $$ at another.</p>

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<p>I guess I don’t see what you are asking? If you don’t get accepted ED then you can apply RD to other schools, anyone you want even Harvard I think(unless Harvard was the school who rejected the ED)? If you get get accepted ED but turn it down because of the finaid, then I suppose you could apply RD at that point to Harvard as long as the app date hasn’t passed, I’ve never heard you “can’t”, but I would think the odds of an acceptance would be slim. I could be totally wrong so…</p>

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<p>“but for those who do and need good FA, is limiting where the student applies post-ED cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face?”</p>

<p>The bottom line is that if finances are a consideration, don’t apply ED unless one is applying ED to one of the few schools that are known for being the most generous in the country when it comes to financial aid. Even then, you need to be rock bottom sure that their financial aid would be acceptable to you.</p>

<p>Most students in the country probably can not apply ED because of their finances. My sons always knew that ED was out of the question for them. None of us viewed this as a hardship. When one considers the world, my kids – and virtually all students in the U.S. – have college opportunities that are far more than is the case for students virtually any other place in the world.</p>

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<p>I have heard of the former, but have never heard of the latter.</p>

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<p>Some schools can even do worse, they will will not rescind the admission, but they have the student start school on academic probation which becomes a permanent part of the college record.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s a big problem if a student starts college on academic probation, but does very well in college. Grad schools, professional schools, etc. aren’t going to hold against a high achieving college student the fact that they apparently did something immature when they were high school seniors.</p>

<p>Far better to start college on academic probation due to senioritis than to have one’s admission rescinded.</p>