Not to hijack, but the use of the neutral “they” is quite common in English when the gender of the person is unknown. As in “They were driving a green car.”
They are simply asking them to say students when in a larger setting with a possible mixture of genders.
Honest question – some men have been taking classes there for many years, so why is it that it was okay then if a professor or whomever said ‘women’ – only once the whole transgender and neutral gender issue came up did it seem to matter.
@bodangles I don’t know but I am thinking if you are changing your whole gender what the entire group is addressed as - men, women, children, students, is pretty low on a list of issues to get kerfluffled about but maybe that is just me.
And as to my example, I was pretty aggravated – but apparently my aggravation doesn’t matter so much as a special population.
@toomanyteens - that is a key point, actually. There are men at MoHo, because 5C students can and do take classes there. MoHo has never ONLY been women.
@toomanyteens Your DMV story just points out to me that the website is lacking in instructions for those wishing to change their names due to marriage. Perhaps you should point that out to them. I honestly don’t see how it negates the need for info on a gender change. 
“so why is it that it was okay then if a professor or whomever said ‘women’ – only once the whole transgender and neutral gender issue came up did it seem to matter.”
Probably because these people are fighting for and asking for such things, just as women and minorities and gay people have been asking for their rights and preferences for generations. More power to them. I say we should all support anyone in the fight for recognition. It would work a heck of a lot better supporting one another than standing by old standards and traditions…just because that’s the way it has always been. Intersectionality can be a good thing.
This is ironic — MoHo is one of the less edgy women’s college, IMHO. Getting your undies in a bundle over this is silly.
@doschicos my point is how the government could care less apparently about the non-special population but went out of their way to make sure there are exhaustive directions for the special populations – it is just short sighted and dumb.
I guess its all good to fight for recognition or perhaps it is being uber sensitive in this case which isn’t always positive.
@toomanyteens you are making assumptions. Do you know if that was common practice to call a room full of students, that included men, women? Also, without being transgender, you would have no idea what issues they deal with and which ones get them kerfluffled.
It has only been recently that MoHo and it’s cohorts have made official policies with regards to transgender students. There will be growing pains. It doesn’t affect you or me. It affects their students, current and prospective.
“I guess its all good to fight for recognition or perhaps it is being uber sensitive in this case which isn’t always positive.”
How would you respond if folks called those asking for rights and recognition for women, minorities uber sensitive?? Seems like it would be uber insensitive to me.
Perhaps your state spelled out the gender change info clearly on their website because it generates a lot of calls and extra work. Perhaps they did it to make their own lives easier. If you have a problem finding info YOU need, ask for it. I’m sure that is what the transgender folks did. How does it possibly hurt you at all by having that info there for them? I see zero reason to be offended by it.
Kindness, consideration, respect, helpfulness and equality, etc. aren’t a zero sum game. It’s really, really easy to provide such courtesies and rights to all.
“Kindness, consideration, respect, helpfulness and equality, etc. aren’t a zero sum game. It’s really, really easy to provide such courtesies and rights to all.”
Bingo. But that includes rights to all. Including the many women who choose to go to a women’s college and want to be referred to as a woman and want to be respected as a woman, and want to feel empowered as a woman.
I’ve appreciated the discussion and I don’t feel anyone here has been disrespectful toward transgender. But no one has changed my mind. As I said , I went to a women’s college. Enjoyed every minute of it and respected the men who were in my classes and they respected me. I expect the same from any transgendered person. I respect them for who they are and will try to call them by any pronoun they want me to. But don’t come to a Womens college and expect the 99% (number pulled from thin air) to change how they are addressed. Come to the women’s college, embrace it and accept it for what it is. If you respect them they will respect you. If that’s to much to do then choose another option. After all, we are always telling these kids to go for a good fit.
Did I miss the part where MoHo students are upset at being called MoHo students? It seems they are having an open conversation and coming up with ideas.
Did anybody say MoHo students were upset cause I sure didn’t. And neither did anyone else that I saw. I asked a sincere question based on the fact that they have asked professors to stop calling them women.
It struck me as odd and not productive. I was speaking as an alum of a women’s college based on my experience and how I feel about it. Open conversation generally includes all sides does it not.
As the parent of a prospective student, I totally agree with bhs1978. So, in a way, I do have a “dog in this fight.”
Sounds to me like “tyranny of the minority.”
"I was speaking as an alum of a women’s college based on my experience and how I feel about it. "
Maybe you would feel differently if you were a student sitting in a classroom today next to trans students that were your peers and maybe even friends or dorm mates, people you knew personally and interacted with. You might not mind because you would wish to be inclusive and would share their desire for their incorporation into the school. I’m not sure it is fair to judge a current policy through the eyes of a different time, different atmosphere. Many of the current students are there and chose to be a part of the college knowing the school has made concrete changes to welcome and include transgender students. I also think that the type of students attracted to Mount Holyoke are, for the most part, the type of students that would understand why a greeting to “students” not “women” is being suggested. Certainly, you have every right to your opinion as an alumna. I just think young adults are often at the forefront driving changes like this. It’s hard in my mind to separate the decision to allow transgender students to enroll or remain as students from recommending more inclusive language. If you are going to buy into the policy, you need to follow through with inclusive language, IMO.
If you are a prospective parent/student, now you know and there are so many colleges to choose from. Choose one that aligns with your values.
I have spent my career in a client centered business. In any given day I sit with a client for 45-60 minutes and usually see them 1-3 times a week. . I have sat with several transgender clients we got along famously. So no I wouldn’t feel differently. I am inclusive. We talk. We discuss their issues openly and I’ve respected every single one of them. So why is it so wrong of me to expect that same consideration and respect.
So please don’t disrespect my opinion because I was at a women’s college at a different time. It doesn’t change what going to a women’s college meant to me.
Thanks for the civil discussion. And, hey, let’s all be respectful out there…to everyone.
No one is disrespecting your opinion. You asked for discourse and other opinions and you are getting them.
If there were current students objecting to the recommended language, I think that would add a different element to the discussion. But, the reality is times do change and the school has decided to change its policy to one of inclusion. They aren’t forbidding the use of woman or women being used on campus. Personally, I’m all for inclusion and intersectionality. I don’t think that changes the college’s mission as a women’s college. That’s all I’m stating. It’s not a personal attack on you.
It seems that memo is merely advisory in the context of creating a friendly environment for trans students. It does seem like overkill. My daughter attended a women’s college (Barnard) and had at least one female-to-male transitioning student who was very well known and outspoken. But the suggestions for profs in the memo do seem like going overboard. If the class is small enough that the professor is likely to be using pronouns to refer to individual students, it seems like the easiest process would be to have students introduce themselves - and if they have any particular preference as to how they want to be addressed, that’s a good time to mention it.
The problem with going too far is that it creates the potential for resentment or backlash where none would exist otherwise. A simple “please be sensitive to the needs of our trans community and respect individual preferences for use of pronouns” might be a lot more effective than a memo enumerated multiple steps needing to be followed.
My D is a first year at Mount Holyoke. She is proud to go to a women’s college and students definitely are proud to identify as women—including female trans students. The article is from Fox News, and I think it’s just trying to stir the pot and get people riled up.
And Breitbart.
Are they discouraging use of the word “freshman” too? “First years” sounds like they’re referring to 9th grade boarding school students.