Women's College -Sincere question

First Year has been quite common at many colleges for awhile now. It’s not new nor rare.

I’m a current student at Mt. Holyoke, and while I don’t log on often any more (junior year is very busy!), I wanted to weigh in briefly.

We have students at Mt Holyoke who do not identify themselves as women, and in the spirit of being kind, open, and, frankly, courteous, we do not refer to them as women. Sometimes people forget, since most people on campus do identify as women, that it’s important to use language which recognizes those MHC students who do not. They are a part of our community, and we want them to be treated with respect.

I have no idea why someone considered this newsworthy. We got an email earlier explaining the presence of some news crews, and I had to google “Mount Holyoke Recent News” to figure out what was going on. This is such a non-issue on campus that no one I was with knew what might have prompted the email off the top of their heads.

So, that’s it. Non-story, non-issue, and rather baffling from a student perspective.

“Some of my best friends are transgender.”

To the OP-- the world has changed. There were probably trans students when you attended that didn’t feel comfortable being ther authentic selves when you attended.

It seems like a low-cost alternative to say “students” rather than women. What is the harm?

And what is the harm in calling women women?

Because now every student at the college doesn’t identify as a woman. And in fact, I know students who are not transgender who have also gone to neutral pronouns. I don’t think it hurts anyone to be more inclusive in this case. It isn’t changing the mission of the school or the vast majority of the students who attend it in any way. Honestly, this discussion is happening at many schools. There were transgender kids in my kid’s HS 6-7 years ago. To this generation, it is fairly commonplace now.

So now we are back to my original post. Why do we have single sex universities?

Because they were that way before, and going fully coed is a much bigger decision for the college to discuss and decide than making minor adjustments to handle a small number of transgender students while otherwise continuing as they did before.

They may identify as women when they enroll but may figure out their identity after they enroll.

The article did it’s job in some respects. It has sensationalized what is actually happening. By opening it with a statement saying professors aren’t allowed to call women women, some have taken that as a fact while it seems to be far from it. If you read further, it appears that they are being asked to say students when in a group setting where they may be unaware of everyone’s identity. I imagine single sexed colleges went through some growing pains when they became co-ed.

No one is saying a woman can’t be called a woman.

@bhs1978 , in your original post you mention accepting transmen. I am not fully up on the policy of every women’s college, but I believe if someone has made the transition before being applying, they will not be accepted. As for a transwoman, they must have transitioned before applying. (This does not have to include gender reassignment surgery.)

Mount Holyoke gender eligibility for admission is at https://www.mtholyoke.edu/policies/admission-transgender-students#q2 .

Unlike most other women colleges, anyone who was born female or currently identifies as female is eligible. I.e. female-to-male transgender applicants are eligible, unlike at most other women colleges.

Some posters may be downplaying (or ignoring) the existence of students who identify as gender neutral or gender queer. This isn’t all about students who are transitioning. MHC has a long history of being a comfortable and academically challenging place for humans who haven’t identified as being cis male. Can’t we all go with that?

I agree that the opinions of the current students must outweigh those of alum.

Thank you @ucbalumnus. It is a changing scene and each college is adapting in various ways.

@MomOf3DDs thank you. the conversation about this is very open on campus as well amongst the alum. MHC has always been into changing the landscape. When I was there it was divesting in Coke to protest apartheid. If the students and alum are ok with the discussion, then let them set the tone.

@PNWedwonk Then there is no point to the school being a Women’s college. It should switch and also become gender neutral if gender is no longer a factor/important in it’s mission.

My son, who was born female, is not interested in applying to any women’s colleges whatsoever and I support that decision (with a bit of wistfulness for the thought that some of them would have suited him well academically and socially). I’ve met a number of his trans friends who don’t have very supportive parents. I can see several of them being railroaded into applying to a women’s college and then transitioning socially once they were away from home.

I applaud the colleges supporting this very difficult time in a kid’s life.

It would be wonderful if every teenaged trans boy had the opportunity to only go to the colleges that conform with their gender identity, but every family is unique and some make it difficult to transition while the kid is still a minor.

Yup. Me too.

Very well said. It seems MHC students are fine with that, even if some sensational news sites aren’t.

From my observation, many feminist women of my generation are somewhat ambivalent about transwomen, believing that transwomen (a) lack the experience shared by other women of growing up as a female child, and (b) often (if not always) have a decidedly male view of what being a woman entails, and tend to consciously or unconsciously enforce very traditional gender norms. But young women, their daughters, who are equally intelligent and equally thoughtful are almost uniformly hostile to that point of view, and can’t acknowledge any element of validity to it. As far as they are concerned, in a perfect world everyone could choose their gender identities, including non- or ambiguous gender identities, and the best way to get to that world is to pretend that it’s already reality.

For them, the answer to “why have a women’s college” may well be that, for better or worse, what a “women’s college” has always been is really “a college for people who are not cisgendered men.” That has value because cisgendered men tend to be very noisy and controlling, and they have a bunch of pathologies that make things difficult for other types of people. The so-called women’s colleges are safe places for those other types of people – the vast majority of whom, of course are . . . women. But not all. So it’s perfectly fine to call women “women,” but wrong to assume that all students are women or want to be women.

That attitude drives the second-wave feminists of my generation crazy, but that’s the kind of thing that goes on between generations. Fashions change.

@doschicos I didn’t say it hurt me that they had it and I did call; what choice did I really have?? – somehow I find it hard to believe MORE people have called about how to change their gender than their name; I am pretty certain there are more name changes that happen than gender changes. It just makes no sense that the state makes it a priority to put up information for a very small minority of people and ignores the bigger pool of more common situations. I am sure they get way more questions about name changes — so I don’t know what you are trying to say.

I guess you are saying it makes good sense to have more people calling then less. 8-|