Working at McDonalds

<p>This thread is so full of non sequitors and economic ignorance that I think I can literally feel a pulse in my eyelid right now. For the love of God, if you aren't going to even pick up a book on economics, at least read this:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503g.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503g.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>All 10 parts, only like 20 pages total, and it would result in 90% fewer dumb posts. While you're at it, learn what normative values are, WHEN THEY ARE APPLICABLE, and the is-ought problem. Afterwards, if you like, ask yourself why you were never taught this in high school (or for many, college).</p>

<p>bahahahah jokes on you Citation X, this post was meant to be sarcastic dummy!!! I hate how cultural relativism is stated as fact in many universities just cuz Jared Diamond says so....</p>

<p>I'm an econ/math major, BTW...I could never hack it in engineering</p>

<p>I hate you rich kids that never met a working class person in your life, yet romanticize about them being the only honest individuals in society...flipping burgers could easily be done by a machine</p>

<p>Wilkommen bei McDonald's! Darf ich nehmen dein bestellen, bitte?
Willst du gar Pommes Frittes mit das?</p>

<p>Yeah, I had a one day stint as a Mickey-D's worker in German II back as a HS freshman. Not sure if the phrases up there are 100% correct for grammar and spelling but they look pretty close.</p>

<p>That machine probably costs less than $5.25 per hour when all is said and done. Around here most McDonald's seem to be built then rebuilt every 20-25 years or so. You do the math--purchase price, maintence costs (probably fairly low) over 25 years.</p>

<p>And as for working class people and wealth and whatnot, let me say this. I grew up in a blue collar urban town. My family is white collar, but my old town was only about 35% white collar. I think you people who haven't met working class people should--they may not have the book smarts but I've found they often have more common sense. Plus they have street smarts. When I went on a trip to Chicago with four of my close friends (all from white collar neighborhoods) none of them even bothered to look both ways when crossing the street. And that's just one bad example of why you need to experience the city if you want a shot at surviving.</p>

<p>And for that matter, the working class are often more honest. In my hometown (which I've since migrated out of but still pass through on a regular basis) there is a hardware store run by a bunch of blue collar guys. I can go in there and ask the guy at the nail/screw counter exactly what size and how many screws I need for something and he will give me an honest answer, the right parts, and won't charge me for a huge box where I will only use 16 out of 200 screws. Find me that sort of service in a white collar town--you have big box hardware joints that only sell screws by the bulk, help is scarce, and when you do find it they are clueless and sell you the most expensive box of screws just so they can make a profit. Then they give you a headache when you return an open box because you find out they're the wrong size. There is a reason I still go to my favorite hardware store all the time. (I do a lot of woodworking in my spare time so I'm buying stuff like screws and saw blades a lot)</p>

<p>As far as me financially, I'm not bad. I save a ton of money because I don't see that many movies and never go to concerts. (The only thing I go to all the time is baseball games, but they're more fun than any movie) I just bank the surplus, let it earn interest, and eventually dump it into my car. Repeat the cycle, adding a bit more money each time.</p>

<p>Also, I buy the best I can so that it lasts me a long time. People thought I was nuts spending $200 on a laser printer a year ago but I still have the original toner cartridge in it and most people have spent close to $200 in printer ink, for example. I also bought a $60 garden hose this past summer. The hose has a lifetime warranty and is constructed of really high grade materials. It replaced an old budget hose my dad bought for $15 that only lasted ten years.</p>

<p>Don't forget quality vs quantity. Abercrombie & Fitch shirts, for example, fit better, look better, and wash nicer than the ones you find at K-Mart or some place. Sure, I can buy three K-Mart shirts for the price of one Abercrombie, but I'd take the Abercrombie (or Ralph Lauren) any day. Ralph Lauren and Abercrombie dominate my closet. Higher initial purchase price but when you want a good fit, a style you love, and durability nothing else will do. (Ralph Lauren also makes good bedding and paint in addition to clothes--try it, it hasn't failed me yet)</p>

<p>And let's not forget our cars in this example. Being in a city setting I can avoid putting on miles since everything I need is close to my house. When we moved we picked the location for that reason (along with the school). To college, it's a little over 2 miles. The grocery store is about 3, and the mall about 4 and a half. Same distance to the high school. Even PNC Park is only about 10 miles away. Any restaraunt, shop, gym, etc. that I'd visit is also close, my trips rarely are over 15 miles one way. I put on about 4200 miles per year. That not only saves on gas, but also on the car itself. Tires and other parts (brakes, axles, etc) wear out quicker on cars with higher mileage. My car, a Volvo, is a decade old and has about 63K on it. Anyone who has seen an old Volvo on the street with 350K+ on the odometer knows how long these cars can last. If I hold onto this car and live with my mom for a few years after getting a job and going to grad school, I'll have more than enough saved to not only get a house but possibly get a new car as well. The only downside is that my Volvo may be 20 years old by then...but given my rate of driving it will barely be over 100K miles. (It still looks good too--the paint still shines, the leather is flawless, and the original mats are virtually spotless)</p>

<p>Anyone can be rich/well off. You just need some research, some common sense, and some thinking. You may have to sacrifice something (like a brand new car) for something else (grad school) but in the end it's worth it.</p>

<p>Ok, if you honestly think that people working at fast food places dont realy deserve respect, ur a moron. In fact u dont deserve respect, atleast not from me.</p>

<p>Some people had different upbringings. My parents moved to america and their degrees were basically worthless. My dad was going to take classes in america for accounting (he was an accountant in our home country) but he failed the exam because he didnt speak english. I mean its hard to pass GREs and stupid tests if u cant analyze mumbo-jumbo. My mom works at a cafeteria and I feel bad for her because she works really hard and doesnt get paid much. In fact some students at my school make more money than my mom. But I really dont give a ****, she doesnt speak english and she cant get another job. She is smart and the nicest person in the world, and she works a lot harder than that Harvard kid who grew up sailing the world with his dad who could get him the best tutors.</p>

<p>I am a smart kid, I will be successful and whenever I start my company I will make sure that blue collar workers earn enough money to make a living. And I will make damn sure that executives will not be earning 300,000 a year.</p>

<p>People working at low paying jobs work harder than people making more. I work at a grocery store and I make only $6 an hour and I do MORE work than my manager who is pulling $40-60,000 (and Im being completely serious, I do more work than him).</p>

<p>This is gay. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. And people are too ignorant to realize this.</p>

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Ok, if you honestly think that people working at fast food places dont realy deserve respect, ur a moron.

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<p>I'm not sure anyone said this. In general, the discussion was about skilled vs. unskilled labor, though it got sidetracked by a lot of irrelevant appeals to emotion.</p>

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I am a smart kid

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<p>Then why, evidenced by your post, do you not understand even the basics of capitalism? Nor, apparently, do you have a desire to learn, illustrated by the fact that you didn't read/understand the link I provided above?</p>

<p>um I understand capitalism very well. It is a profit driven concept...and I believe the discussion is about "importance" of a burger flipper vs. someone "educated" in the society. I dont think everyone has the same experiences. You obviously would much rather bash people's opinion than realize basic facts.</p>

<p>


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<p>So I realize I wasn't part of this discussion, but I saw that statement and it's completely ridiculous. That is a huge generalization. Comparing you to your boss really doesn't provide any evidence to support what you're saying. Why do you think people at high paying jobs get paid more? Is it some huge conspiracy to keep the poor down? No, it's because their work is more valued. Anyone can flip a burger or sweep a floor, but it requires quite a bit of education and knowledge to be a doctor, lawyer, etc. Any doctor could do the job of a McDonald's employee, but very few McDonald's employees could do the job of a doctor. Also, have you thought about why the people are in low-paying jobs to begin with? Possibly because they haven't worked hard enough to get a good education and find a better job? I'm not saying this applies to everyone, and your parents sound like perfect examples of people with little opportunity who are working their hardest. But a lot of people in low paying jobs could be doing something else if they really tried. Plus..we need the people in low paying jobs. It's a fact of life that some people will have to do the menial labor and it will always be the least-skilled people of a society.</p>

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I hate how cultural relativism is stated as fact in many universities just cuz Jared Diamond says so....

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<p>Actually, Diamond is by no means a cultural relativist. Quite the opposite, in fact.</p>

<p>adf8,</p>

<p>The unfortunate thing about your plan is that it's not economically viable. At least not if you subscribe to marginal theory of value... A Marxist might disagree, but I don't think that anyone really, outside of UMass maybe, buys into labor theory of value anymore.</p>

<p>Jared Diamond is not a good scientist, and he is wrong about a great deal of what he says. This is pretty off-topic, though.</p>

<p>I'm going to permit a quick diversion from our regularly-scheduled flamewar to ask...why is Jared Diamond not a good scientist? I'm just curious.</p>

<p>Forget about common citation practices, first of all.</p>

<p>But more importantly, he simply ignores information that contradicts his theories. Or he responds to it with circular reasoning, e.g. a theory can be dismissed if it's not geography-based. In other words, other viewpoints are discarded on the basis that they don't agree with his. That is not good science. On a personal level, throughout Guns, Germs and Steel, I couldn't help but feel a PC, anti-Dead White Male agenda.</p>

<p>If you'd like to delve further into this, check out Migrations and Cultures by Thomas Sowell. I am going to sleep for now :)</p>

<p>UCLAri,</p>

<p>I wasn't really presenting a plan. I probably shouldn't have used the word "valued" to describe the work of people in high paying-jobs, but I was trying to make the point that there is a difference in the type of work done by low-income workers and highly paid workers. You're going to pay someone more to preform your heart surgery or manage your investments than to make you a burger, so in a sense you do "value" their work more. But really, I think that income has more to do with the level of education and skill required to preform the job. The work of a player in the NFL doesn't really have any value to society, except entertainment, but very few people could perform that job because of the high skill level required. I don't really think a Marxist would agree with what I said either. Marxists generally subscribe to the labor theory of value and I'm not saying that people in high-paying jobs put more effort into their jobs than people in low-paying jobs, just that it's a different kind of work.</p>

<p>Nickel and Dimed should be renamed the "Bible for latte sipping, apologist, limousine liberal know-nothing's"</p>

<p>I was a member of the working poor for a while. There was a series of circumstances that led to me being stuck doing menial labor and going hungry for 1-2 days at a time. As a result of that experience, I'm never going to be poor again, and I'm sure as hell not going to celebrate that life style. I wasn't a hero for being poor, nor was anybody else working with me. We had, at that moment in time, given up on life. BTW, intelligence was not the greatest differential between those of the working poor and those of the rich, that much is true. there's less than a std. deviation in IQ between the average neuro surgeon and the average 7-11 clerk. But if you subscribe to the existential paradox, as I know many of you do, then you should know life is what you make it...</p>

<p>I suggest some of you take time off from school and go out into the real world...wisdom comes from experience, no heavily politicized book can impart wisdom</p>

<p>"I love my teacher Plato, but I love the truth even more.." Aristotle</p>

<p>
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Any doctor could do the job of a McDonald's employee, but very few McDonald's employees could do the job of a doctor.

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<p>Well, sure. But, I do not know many doctor's who would desire to scrub floors. I still stand by my opinion that living off fast food pay is what would be really hard- and that would be far mroe difficult to do than being a doctor or an engineer or anything else. I could not imagine living off of, maybe, $400.00 a month. That is all I am saying, you know?</p>

<p>^
How mature. :rolleyes:</p>

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I do not know many doctor's who would desire to scrub floors.

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Oh, I don't know. I'd rather scrub floors than be a doctor and/or do surgery. :eek:</p>