<p>If you work over the summer... and don't make enough to have to report taxes.. will schools still take away w/e it is that they usually take away from your financial aid award? Thereby increasing your EFC?</p>
<p>(by you I mean the student not the parent).</p>
<p>Your next year's EFC is increased 50 cents for each dollar you earn over $3000 this year.</p>
<p>This question and many others are answered here:
<a href="http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcinformation/attachments/0708EFCFormulaGuide1120.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcinformation/attachments/0708EFCFormulaGuide1120.pdf</a></p>
<p>See Worksheet A.</p>
<p>If you are getting need-based aid, colleges would expect you to work over the summer. That is part of your self help. Even if you earn a lot of money over the summer and your financial aid is decreased, you still come out ahead.</p>
<p>I think the formula needs to be adjusted upwards or have a graduated phase in of the bite. It is pretty easy to exceed $3000 a year if you can land a job that is significantly better paying than minimum wage, and you can get 40-60 hours a week in. 50 hours a week at $10/hr for 12 weeks gets you $6000.</p>
<p>The problem is our kids are smart enough to figure out that after 6 weeks they are only getting $5 an hour for the same work, which is less than minimum wage. Who can blame them for thinking maybe they should stop at $3000 and then play video games at home all day for the rest of the summer?</p>
<p>"Who can blame them for thinking maybe they should stop at $3000 and then play video games at home all day for the rest of the summer?"</p>
<p>They can choose to do that, but the more work experience they have -- at any job -- the better will be their job options upon graduation. Being able to keep $5 an hour still would put them ahead in terms of being able to pay for college while having an enjoyable time during the school year.</p>
<p>I write as someone who was on financial need and worked to the max during my college years.</p>
<p>I don't buy that. At jobs like the ones we are talking about, 12 weeks is just what you learned the first week repeated 12 times, at best. Sometimes you learn all you are going to the first hour then repeat it. </p>
<p>If the goals are compensation and work ethic, reducing the compensation by half, half way through, is counter-productive to those goals.</p>
<p>"At jobs like the ones we are talking about, 12 weeks is just what you learned the first week repeated 12 times, at best."</p>
<p>I worked jobs like being a store clerk and typist during college summers and the school year. A bright person will continue to learn on any job. At the very least, they'll learn about human nature, something that is important in any field that one chooses to go into.</p>
<p>On the jobs that I had, I also learned about the various businesses, management, and other things -- simply by being there and observing what went on. </p>
<p>Of course, if one simply mindlessly does what one is told, one won't learn a lot. However, a bright, curious person can learn much even on jobs that many would regard as mindless -- and the things the person learns will be impressive to prospective employers at more high paying, higher ranked jobs.</p>
<p>"Who can blame them for thinking maybe they should stop at $3000 and then play video games at home all day for the rest of the summer?"</p>
<p>I sense that such feelings are widespread amongst those who get healthy need based aids. But work - any kind of work makes your life richer. This could also help of you when you are interviewing for jobs. Now most of the major corporations are relying on behavioral interviews. GPAs after some cut-off point don't add much. The best way to ace the behavioral interview is to have rich life experiences. Life experiences make good stories. When I interview, the kids who have played video games all summer long and wasted their summers, usually flunk.</p>
<p>I agree with all that. I said, who can blame the kids if they think they maybe should quit at $3000? The formula needs to be changed to support not undermine our goals.</p>
<p>I worked one summer at a famous amusement park, serving popcorn and soda pop from a stand where that was all that was offered. I.e., not a big burgers and fries stand, just popcorn and soda. We did make our own popcorn on site in one of those glass-encased popping kettles. When the popcorn got low, we popped another kettle-full. When the soda syrup ran out, we hooked up another canister to the fountain. We filled soda cups and popcorn bags, took money and made change. </p>
<p>It took me ten minutes max to learn the drill. Then that ten minutes was repeated thousands of time. I honestly think I did not learn one new thing all summer after the first week. I did get really good at making change though, and get a kick out of it when clerks today have to use a calculator to figure out the change for a 75 cent pruchase out of dollar.</p>
<p>Minimum wage, and I had to drive 30 minutes each way to get there. Sometimes my shifts ended at midnight and I drove home alone, dead tired. Through waist deep snow (jk that last one). The joke is, I realize now our family did not even need the money, at least not for the sheer number of calories I put into earning it. I just did it for something to do to get out of the house away from my younger siblings, plus my gf worked there.</p>
<p>The drill is the same but the people are different and the kind of things that come up face to face are different which is more valuable. Some situation teaches you to think quickly on the spot.
For example, my summer job in college was working in the bank as a bank teller, easy, enjoyable job except one day one guy handed me a note and said he had a gun, I had to hand him the money. You can imagine what happened after that was very eventful, things that I never thought I had to deal with, but I won't bore you with the details, needless to say I do think very quickly on my feet.:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Who can blame them for thinking maybe they should stop at $3000 and then play video games at home all day for the rest of the summer?"
[/quote]
If I had done this I would have had to choose to either ... not have books or not eat ... as well as have no money for play. I would hope that kids receiving financial aid need to work all summer ... and that is said as a HUGE proponent of financial aid over any form of merit aid.</p>
<p>So are you saying it is smart government policy to penalize by 50% earnings over $3000?</p>
<p>I don't know about smart, but it is a good policy. The word 'penalize' is not the correct word.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So are you saying it is smart government policy to penalize by 50% earnings over $3000?
[/quote]
Do I think it is smart government policy that as a student on financial aid acquires more funds to that could help pay for school (work, scholarships, gifts, inheretence, etc) that their amount of financial aid is reduced? Absolutely ... in my opinion, financial aid is a bridge between the student/student's family ability to pay and the cost of the school ... the student has more bucks then they can pay more.</p>
<p>Do I think 50% is the correct ratio? I have no idea ... but I know 10% is too low and 90% is too high ... if I ever in a situation to influence the rules I'll really dig into the issue to determine what I think the appropriate % is.</p>
<p>It would make sense to me to start phasing in a reduction in aid at a level approximating a full summer of reasonably well-paid work. If working all summer and making as much money as possible are what we are trying to encourage.</p>
<p>Incidentally, for fun take a look at the original post again. Here is a student who smells a rat and wants to know what happens to his financial aid if he works all summer. Why is the system set up so he has to ask that question?</p>
<p>"Why is the system set up so he has to ask that question?"</p>
<p>because many believe they are 'entitled'. They don't want to lose that 'free' money.</p>
<p>"and 90% is too high"</p>
<p>I don't think it is too high. Those who don't get need based aid pay 100% of summer income towards college eduaction. They are the kids of those unfortunate mortals who are too rich for aid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I sense that such feelings are widespread amongst those who get healthy need based aids.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There may be some people who feel this way but there are probably many more who do not. The ones who are thinking that way are the ones who post a question like the OPs.My D gets need based aid (something we never thought to qualify for but do due to various job loss and major health problems the last few years) - she graduated HS a week ago and starts a job this week that she plans to do for her 4 years at college. She is unlikely to make a lot over the $3000 this 1st year. After that for anything over the protected threshold she will still keep 50% of something which is still better than 100% of nothing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
many believe they are 'entitled'. They don't want to lose that 'free' money
[/quote]
Many don't feel entitled but are extremely grateful that the help is available. When my son started college 3 years ago we did not apply for financial aid - now 3 difficult years later it is an enormous blessing that we are able to get it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
At jobs like the ones we are talking about, 12 weeks is just what you learned the first week repeated 12 times, at best
[/quote]
Depends what jobs you look for. My D got a job related to her future plans. It will help her be sure that is what she wants to do plus give her experience and hopefully a good reference when she applies for prof. school down the road. It does not pay much over minimum wage and she really won't make much money in the summer because she will be driving 40 miles to work and back(the job is in the town she will be going to college in) but she will work there throughout the school year and the intangible benefits make up for the difficulties (commuting, scheduling classes round the job etc).</p>
<p>
[quote]
They are the kids of those unfortunate mortals who are too rich for aid.
[/quote]
I wish we were still one of those 'unfortunate' mortals. A few years ago we were - you never know when your fortunes will change. I would be thrilled if we were back in the position where we did not qualify for financial aid.</p>
<p>I think what everyone who is disagreeing with me is forgetting is that the EFC includes a gap that is to be filled with money from somewhere, presumably summer employment. At my spawns' school the gap is for the last 3-4 years at least has been $2300. An increase in the gap, along with an increase in the phase out threshold, would do a lot to encourage the behaviors we all agree are desirable.</p>
<p>I agree-- the assessed portion of the EFC from student income should be graduated- phased in. It does serve as a disincentive to work, as currently constructed. And the work experience CAN be very valuable to the student.</p>