World University Rankings 2012-13 (Times Higher Education)

<p>World</a> University Rankings 2012-13</p>

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"Caltech held on to the world's number one spot with a strong performance across all of our key performance indicators," says Phil Baty, editor of the Times Higher Education World University Rankings. "In a very competitive year, when Caltech's key rivals for the top position reported increased research income, Caltech actually managed to widen the gap with the two universities in second place this year—Stanford University and the University of Oxford. This is an extraordinary performance."

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<p>A big congratulations to Caltech for retaining it's No. 1 spot :)</p>

<p>There’s a reason why ARWU is the most respected global ranking: it has Harvard at the top followed by Stanford and MIT. A ranking loses credibility when Harvard drops out of #1.</p>

<p>It’s a pretty poor argument to base the credibility of a ranking on whether Harvard is ranked No. 1 or not. If you want to attack a ranking, you should set your eyes on their methodology.</p>

<p>Furthermore, few universities are able to claim the No. 1 spot above Harvard, but i think that Caltech is one of them (probably Princeton and Oxbridge too.) Time’s measures are fairly objective. If you click on Caltech within the ranking, you’ll see that it’s the only university within the ranking to have +95/100 points in 4/5 of its categories.</p>

<p>While Harvard did amazing in many of its categories as well, Caltech obliterated it in its industry income score (39.9/100 vs 95.6/100.) This is ultimately what amounted to their difference in ranking. And 4/400 is still in the very top. I wouldn’t say that that takes away from the credibility of the ranking at all.</p>

<p>In addition, CalTech doesn’t have athletes or legacy admits (those who got in b/c of their parents) diluting its student body.</p>

<p>Also, if you look at the differences between Stanford/Oxford and Harvard, their difference in rank amounts to 1/10th of a percentage point (93.7 vs 93.6) The difference is probably the result of O and S increasing their research spending, whereas H did not (or not enough.)</p>

<p>It’s painfully conspicuous that even the best US universities are lacking in International Outlook. A shame considering the country’s founding mission. I hope this would be remedied over time.</p>

<p>In addition, Caltech doesn’t have liberal arts majors diluting its industry income score… :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I like this listing better from THE:</p>

<p>[Top</a> universities by reputation 2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012/reputation-ranking]Top”>World Reputation Rankings 2012 | Times Higher Education (THE))</p>

<p>^ Was just about to post that.</p>

<p>Strong representation from the US, UK, Canada, China, Australia, and Japan.</p>

<p>Northwestern jumped 7 spots to the 19th. I used to dislike this ranking but now I am a fan. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Caltech doesn’t even appear within the top 50 for the humanities/arts section :smiley: (although MIT doesn’t either.)</p>

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<p>It’s interesting to notice that Michigan is listed 12 in reputation whereas it’s listed 20 overall within the ranking; Caltech on the other hand is listed one in the overall ranking, but 10 in terms of reputation.</p>

<p>Caltech’s performance on this list is impressive, considering that it isn’t actually a university.</p>

<p>UCSB above Wash U? UCD above Brown? Ohio State above Rice? Purdue above Emory? Michigan State above Vanderbilt? Case Western above UVA? Basically every state school in the country above Dartmouth? Worst.ranking.ever.</p>

<p>Roger, please send this thread to the abyss of the Grad School forum where it belongs.</p>

<p>Yes, no alternative opinions should be allowed.</p>

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<p>This doesn’t purport to be a ranking of undergraduate programs. It’s a ranking of universities, and more specifically (though they don’t explicitly say it) research universities. Undergraduate education is only part of the mission of a research university; it also engages in graduate and professional education, and it produces research and new knowledge. The methodology here is heavily tilted toward research. Research output counts for 30% of the ranking. Citations, basically another way of measuring the influence of research and scholarly writing, counts for another 30%. So it shouldn’t be surprising that the universities with the greatest research output and the most influential scholars and researchers do very well here. The truth is, Brown, Vandy, UVA, and Dartmouth aren’t research powerhouses. Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Columbia, Chicago, and Penn are. But so are UC Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, U Washington, Georgia Tech, Texas, Wisconsin, Illinois, and the other publics that appear at the top of this list.</p>

<p>And it isn’t “Basically every state school in the country above Dartmouth.” I count 27 of them, of which 7 are in the research-heavy University of California system. You won’t find a West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn. Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, South Carolina, Clemson, Georgia, Florida State in that group. You will find a lot of Big Ten schools–Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, plus the private Northwestern and their CIC partner Chicago, major research players every one; and pretty much everyone at these schools would acknowledge that the 3 Big Ten schools that don’t come out ahead of Dartmouth–Indiana, Iowa, and Nebraska–are lighter on research than the rest of the group.</p>

<p>Notice that with 7 UCs and 8 big-time public research universities from the Big Ten, we’ve accounted for well over half the publics that rank ahead of Dartmouth. And there’s a pretty strong case to be made for each of the remaining 12, if we’re thinking here about the institution’s contributions to the production of new knowledge as opposed to merely educating undergraduates. U Washington, Georgia Tech, Texas, and UNC Chapel Hill are major research players. Schools like UMass, Pitt, Maryland, Arizona, Colorado, Rutgers, UVA, and Florida are smaller but still significant players.</p>

<p>So the list is not random; it is measuring something, mostly research output and research influence. That may not be what you want it to measure, and it may not even be something you value. But like it or not, it is something that academics themselves value; it’s something academic administrators value; it’s something government policymakers value; and it’s something society as a whole ought to value. It is, to a substantial degree, how academic institutions measure themselves against their peers and competitors, and how they judge each other. And it is, to a substantial degree, how they carve out global reputations.</p>

<p>Let’s be clear about one thing, though: this is not a ranking of “Grad Schools.” No doubt there’s a strong positive correlation between a university’s research strength in a particular field and the perceived quality of its graduate program in that same field. But research is the dog and graduate program strength is the tail it wags, not vice versa. Does research strength have any relevance for undergraduates? Many people on CC seem to want to deny there’s any link. I say it depends on the field, the student, and what the student is looking to get out of a college or university experience. But if that’s the case, then it would be horribly wrong to suppress this information, as goldenboy suggests. And in general, suppression of information that doesn’t comfortably conform to your pre-established worldview is a profoundly anti-intellectual approach that is bound to get you in trouble sooner or later.</p>

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I understand your analysis and I’m not trying to dispute what this ranking is trying to measure or its accuracy in doing so, but what I am disputing is this ranking’s relevance to undergraduates trying to decide what college to attend even for the purpose of attaining a PhD in a given field.</p>

<p>This ranking seems to support notions like just because Brown and Dartmouth have weaker graduate Sociology programs than UW-Madison or UM-Ann Arbor, a prospective undergrad that seeks to attend an elite PhD program in the field of Sociology is better off at the latter two public schools. I would love to see any data that shows than Brown and Dartmouth undergraduates are in any way disadvantaged to top state university alums. </p>

<p>In fact, from the narrow data set provided by the undergraduate backgrounds of current doctoral candidates in Princeton’s PhD program in Sociology (one of the elites in the subject), it seems to be private university undergrads that are far outperforming UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. graduates.</p>

<p>[Graduate</a> Students - Princeton Sociology](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/sociology/graduate-program/graduate-students/]Graduate”>http://www.princeton.edu/sociology/graduate-program/graduate-students/)</p>

<p>Brown: 2
Columbia: 6
Dartmouth: 1
Duke: 3
UPenn: 5</p>

<p>University of Wisconsin: 1
University of Michigan: 0 (MSU has one though)
UCLA: 1
UNC-Chapel Hill: 0</p>

<p>bclintonk, all of the 5 private schools listed here have Sociology programs outside of the top 10 according to USNWR and all 4 of the publics I listed have top 10 Sociology programs.</p>

<p>An undergraduate degree from Brown will go farther than a degree from UCLA or Wisconsin, despite the fact that the latter have better graduate programs.</p>

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Again this demonstrates your “selective treatment” of data to suit your purpose, as is common in many of your posts.</p>

<p>There are better or comparable PhD programs in Sociology. Princeton is only ranked third in the latest USNWR rankings (6th in the previous ranking):</p>

<ol>
<li>UC-Berkeley</li>
<li>Wisconsin</li>
<li>Michigan; Princeton</li>
<li>Harvard; Chicago; UNC; Stanford</li>
<li>Northwestern; UCLA</li>
</ol>

<p>You will find plenty of UCB, Wisconsin, Michigan and UCLA grads in the above programs. For example, there are at least 8 Michigan grads and 5 UCB grads in Michigan (btw, there are no Dukies).</p>

<p>Btw, you “conveniently” neglected to mention that there are 4 UCB grads in Princeton.</p>

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<p>Duh, that is pretty elementary, Watson! It is obviously NOT a ranking for undergraduate programs. And as another duh … what is THIS forum’s dedication? </p>

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<p>And that is why there are so many colleges that do not have a graduate school listed. Seriously! This is like saying this is a not a non-coed ranking, but then only coed schools are asked to “participate.”</p>

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<p>Yep, by producing and evaluating research that is only read by a small world of “insiders” and “peers.” Contributions to obscure journals that only exist because of total lack of ROI concerns. This verges on the obscene but does reflect how academic institutions think and act. Protecting the ivory tower from the barbarians! Or by polling one another in a complete love circle! </p>

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<p>Suppressing as in censuring? How about actually SHOWCASING that information in its more appropriate environment? </p>

<p>After all why diluting that precious information in a sea of drivel about what high school boys expect from a few years of undergraduate study?</p>

<p>Can we not really admit why some are so intent to push the ARWU and this one any chance they get? And the why being that one of their favorite schools appears to be more popular with pseudo scientists in China or in London that in the US, and the world universities happen to be mostly public? </p>

<p>There you have it! The revenge of the much maligned public research universities!</p>

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“only” ranked third? LOL! Thanks for the information about Michigan. Who cares about Duke (which is pretty highly ranked in Sociology itself)…how many Brown undergrads are represented? Dartmouth? Amherst? Williams? Swarthmore? Some schools have a bad showing at some elite programs but make up for it by being overrepresented at other elite doctoral programs.</p>

<p>I didn’t forget Berkeley; it just wasn’t one of the publics that bclintonk brought up. Also, Berkeley appears to be far more prestigious than Wisconsin and Michigan and more in line with the Ivies anyway.</p>

<p>Anyway, there’s still no proof that studying under “superior” faculty at Wisconsin will do me any better than studying under “inferior” faculty at Amherst or Brown. The pecking order endorsed by USNWR still stands.</p>

<p>GoldenBoy, you are going to base your entire argument on how well undergrads place into a single PhD program at one point in time? And of all programs, one that is located on the East Coast? </p>

<p>I wonder how many Wisconsin and Michigan undergraduate alums are enrolled at the Chicago, Michigan, Northwestern and Wisconsin Sociology PhD programs. Or how many Cal or UCLA alums are enrolled at the Cal, Stanford and UCLA PhD programs. </p>

<p>Michigan’s Sociology PhD program (ranked #3 in the US):</p>

<p>Michigan 8
Cal 5
Chicago 3
Penn 3
Indiana-Bloomington 2
Michigan State 2
Northwestern 2
Texas-Austin 2
UCLA 2
Brown 1
Harvard 1
Columbia 1
Rice 1
Wisconsin-Madison 1
Cornell 0
Dartmouth 0
Duke 0
Princeton 0
Stanford 0
Yale 0</p>

<p>[Current</a> Graduate Students](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/soc/people/graduatestudents/currentgraduatestudents]Current”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/soc/people/graduatestudents/currentgraduatestudents)</p>

<p>And the University of Chicago Sociology PhD program:</p>

<p>Chicago 3
Michigan-Ann Arbor 2
Rice 2
Brown 1
Columbia 1
Dartmouth 1
Harvard 1
Indiana-Bloomington 1
Johns Hopkins 1
Michigan 1
Northwestern 1
Texas-Austin 1
UCLA 1
UIUC 1
USC 1
Virginia Tech 1
Wisconsin-Madison 1
Cornell 0
Duke 0
Penn 0
Princeton 0
Stanford 0
Yale 0</p>

<p>[The</a> University of Chicago Department of Sociology](<a href=“http://sociology.uchicago.edu/people/az-students_2011.shtml]The”>http://sociology.uchicago.edu/people/az-students_2011.shtml)</p>

<p>I do not have the time to conduct this tedious exercise for other major Sociology PhD programs, but I suspect you will find similar results at Cal, Harvard, Northwerstern etc… </p>

<p>So no GoldenBoy, you are wrong. A degree from Brown will not go farther than a degree from Michigan, UCLA or Wisconsin. I do, however, agree that at the undergraduate level, any elite university will provide a strong undergraduate education…and I am sure we can all agree that Brown, Michigan, UCLA and wisconsin are all elite.</p>