Would a Harvard Extension School degree hold the same weight as a Harvard degree?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>Would I say I went to Harvard College- NO.</p>

<p>Would I say I went to Harvard University- YES.</p>

<p>Harvard itself acknowledges HES as Harvard University, so why can't some of you?</p>

<p>We are not required to put "extention"on our resume, however if in an interview you asked me if I went to the "college" I would be honest and say no, I would say I attended another school at the university. So what exactly am I omitting? that I didn't go to Harvard? Because I did.</p>

<p>As long as I dont put "college" down, it is your own issue if YOU assume I went to the college. </p>

<p>Basically it comes down to this: Omitting info is not lying as long as what you are saying is the truth. Again, I would not put Harvard College on my resume, yet I would have to put down the school I went to: Harvard University.</p>

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<p>Futher more I would like to say, I am taking a course called Visualization this semster. The lecture can be viewed live (if you are in the course). The professor teaches at the School of Engineering and the entire class is filled with GSAS/ Engineering and MIT students.</p>

<p>It was interesting becasue in the begaining of the lecture, he welcomed all of us viewing the lecture online and then said the following:</p>

<p>"This class is the exact same class that the distance students will be taking. There is no difference" i.e we have the same exams, same presentaions, same TA and we can presnt to the class live (our final project).</p>

<p>All or most of my classes are the same format.</p>

<p>Not Harvard???</p>

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<p>amo1: I think it would reflect better on your character to an employer if during an actual interview, you volunteered that you attended HES, were upbeat and proud of it as you should be, it's an excellent program, and were grateful to Harvard for providing this great opportunity to take the same classes as those at the College for a fraction of the price. I can't imagine anyone would hold that against you and your prospective employer would appreciate your candor in this and other matters in the future.</p>

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<p>"Basically it comes down to this: Omitting info is not lying as long as what you are saying is the truth. Again, I would not put Harvard College on my resume, yet I would have to put down the school I went to: Harvard University."</p>

<p>As a Harvard University (My AB is from Radcliffe and Harvard College) grad who also has worked in H-R of a Fortune 500, I would consider someone who simply described themselves as a Harvard U grad when they graduated from HES as lying by omission.</p>

<p>In fact, I would wonder what other things they conveniently left off of their resume.</p>

<p>I very much know that going to HES is not the same as attending Harvard College or the former Radcliffe College.</p>

<p>If, however, someone's resume said HES of Harvard University, I would be intrigued in a good way. But I wouldn't feel the same if the person got their degree from HES, but tried to pass themselves off as if they had a regular undergraduate degree from Harvard or Radcliffe.</p>

<p>I also know that most people would assume -- for good reason -- that someone who says they graduated undegrad from Harvard University went to Harvard or Radcliffe College, not the extension school -- something that most people have no idea exists.</p>

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<p>Harvard itself says HES=Harvard University. What's the problem? Sounds like a good way of getting a high paying job without having to cure cancer in order to get into Harvard. Stupid employers=good.</p>

<p>It's not like any sizeable company is going to be any more honest to you!</p>

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<p>First of all, I am not talking about undergrad. I am thinking of doing and ALM which is a Master's degree. Again if HES= Harvard University, what is really the problem? If someone came to you and said that they had a Masters from Harvard U, but left off it was GSAS or the school of engineering, would that also be considered lying by omission? or are they allowed to leave off what school they are afflil. with?
You know what I am not even saying that I would not put those horried little words"extention" on my resume, BUT I am more curious to know why there is a double standard.</p>

<p>Again I am refering to grad. degrees NOT undergrad.</p>

47

<p>It depends on whether you want the education or the prestige. While you get the same quality of education at a lower cost, it's no where near as prestigious as a Harvard degree. The admissions requirements are no where near as rigorous as Harvard's, and the school itself is not likely to be filled with the world's greatest geniuses. For grad/postgrad, people often look at the college ranking - and Harvard is simply better (although by no means necessary for success - any accredited university, in theory, should be acceptable).</p>

<p>Also HES != Harvard U - it's just named that way to separate it from Harvard College. You can say HES of Harvard U, which would be totally accurate.</p>

<p>And yes, there have been successful but dishonest souls in the business world, but why bring yourself down to their low level of integrity - and risk a great future?</p>

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<p>I've been hiring college grads for years, and I think it is incumbent on the applicant to make clear any qualifications related to a degree. If it was earned by distance learning, I'd like to know that - an undergrad degree in particular isn't just about facts learned, but by the whole basket of social skills, coping ability, etc. In addition, if the degree is from an elite school, I'd assume that the candidate went through that institution's selective recruiting process.</p>

<p>I'd certainly discuss the details of the candidate's Harvard (or wherever) experience if we got to the interview stage, and it would be a bit off-putting if the resume didn't reflect an unconventionally obtained degree. It might not totally disqualify the candidate if the resume was accurate and honest, e.g., the degree listed according to the school's guidelines. Nevertheless, that would be one point where I'd believe the applicant was doing some credential inflation. If I found a job title that had been upgraded, or a position listed prominently that the applicant had held only for a few weeks (without stating that), I'd know that the candidate would probably BS me after being hired, too.</p>

<p>I'm in agreement with ClassicRockerDad - integrity is something that you have, or you don't. An individual with integrity is worried less about making one more sale (or squeezing out the last few percent of compensation) and more concerned about being comfortable in his/her own skin. Earning an unconventional degree is nothing to be ashamed of, and may indeed be a great credential if the program is rigorous. Be honest and sleep well.</p>

<p>(I did interview a guy who listed a bachelor's degree from a college I hadn't heard of. Being a college buff, I naturally quizzed him about the location of the school, the nature of the program, etc. After getting increasingly uncomfortable with this turn of conversation, he finally stammered that it was a "life experience" degree with no actual classes. We concluded the interview shortly after that. The funny thing was, his work experience got him the interview, but his trying to pass off a mail order diploma as a real college degree was a major factor in his elimination.)</p>

<p>I'm not saying brutal honesty and disclaimers are always essential... "Yes, I earned a 3.6 GPA, but anyone with a pulse could manage a 3.5" would be going too far, IMO. But, if you feel a need to conceal something about your degree, it's probably going to be doubly embarrassing if it comes out involuntarily under questioning in the interview, and triply so if it only comes out after hire. Imagine the VP of HR telling the CEO that the new guy is a fellow Harvard grad, and that they should do lunch to catch up on campus doings...</p>

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<p>Technically, it's right to say that HES=Harvard University. Hard itself says that. So whats the problem?</p>

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<p>"Sounds like a good way of getting a high paying job without having to cure cancer in order to get into Harvard. Stupid employers=good."</p>

<p>Stupid employers aren't offering high paying jobs unless those jobs exist only in the employers' minds.</p>

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<p>NSM, I disagree, there are lots and lots of stupid employers....peter principle is still alive and well</p>

<p>look at the people the head of Fema hired...egad</p>

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<p>CGM: Darn it. I always forget about the Peter Principle even though I've seen it in operation....</p>

<p>Back to the questions about Harvard Extension School: If an employer were stupid, as some are, one could put on one's resume that you got your degree from Harvard Extension School, and they would think it was the same thing as a BA or MA from Harvard College. And there'd be no reason for you to enlighten them further (unless they asked) since you'd told the absolute truth.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom- what if I earned a MASTERS degree on campas and basically took all courses that were the same as the regular GSAS classes. Does that change your view?</p>

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<p>No, it wouldn't change my view because IMO what makes Harvard Harvard is the students, not the classes or the professors. To me, the most enriching part of the Harvard experience is one's classmates.</p>

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<p>Right Northstarmom! A friend of mine (former Ivy leauger) conducted a study on acceptances to ivy leage schools and discovered a large handful are basically idiots who are a) legacy's b) come from tons of money (daddy probably paid the school off in some way) ect.</p>

<p>So are these the classmates you are refering to?</p>

<p>By the way, what makes Harvard Harvard ...is attending HARVARD, which the extention school is a part of. I know it may hurt a "legit" Harvard alum like yourself to see it that way, but it is the truth.</p>

<p>Lastly, we may be "extention" but we are also very much Harvard. But do not take my work for it, just ask Harvard yourself!</p>

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<p>I would think that the people in the Harvard Extension can give just as much of an enriching experience as regular Harvard, and often more!!</p>

<p>You aren't just surrounded by young adults, in the HEL you have mature adults, people that have been living in the world, working, with college kids themselves, people who have attended a wide range of schools, worked in various fields, who have decided to enrich their educations, who are often working AND studying...that can be a darn rich environment</p>

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<p>going to the website, the courses are "true" harvard courses, often with students from the college and the extension students all mixed up together....interesting!!!</p>

<p>you can see some of the class lectures online....guess you need to actually take the classes to get more lectures, but its fun to get a taste of different courses</p>

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<p>Citygirlsmom, nobody is denying that Harvard Extension is true Harvard, or whether it is an outstanding environment. It is indeed both. I think that graduates from HES programs should be proud; it certainly isn't easy to get the degree.</p>

<p>However, Harvard College and the various graduate departments and professional schools are quite selective. HES is far less selective. Getting through the more selective Harvard admissions process is an achievement in itself that HES students have not attained. </p>

<p>I'm familiar with the book am01 refers to, and despite what he says, there is no denying that the stats and achievements of average Harvard students are astounding. There are far more deserving people who don't get in than undeserving people who do. For graduate school, I don't think there is "daddy's money" and their graduate school admission is very competitive. </p>

<p>The issue at hand is whether it is ethical or wise to leave a potential employer with the mistaken impression that you successfully got through the selective admissions process. </p>

<p>For most people, so what. If it doesn't matter, than what's the harm in going that extra mile to make sure your "customer" doesn't feel deceived. Why not lay what you actually HAVE achieved out there naked and be proud of it for what it is. Why be insecure about a truth that is excellent in its own right. Adding that cloud of doubt has little upside and a terrible downside. </p>

<p>I am far more impressed with businesses that under-promise and over-deliver than the reverse. I've had the same car mechanic for 13 years. He's expensive, he's the best and he's worth every penny. </p>

<p>And BTW, I think Warren Buffett is an exemplar of integrity. There are many others.</p>

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<p>ah, so if you were a business, you would be more impressed by someone who is picked at age 18 for stuff they did when they were 16 over people that took a different path, may be older, worked, etc? or pick someone who was in school over someone who perhaps worked for several years in a field and decided to go back to school? or who had to go to a different school for any number of reasons, some out of the high schoolers control....or who couldn't apply because of family issues- the need to stay close to home for instance....when you consider that a few thousand go to a few schools each year that are "the most selective" I find it argonant to be more impressed just because some person looked at some papers and test score a few years ago....</p>

<p>got it</p>

<p>for me, it wouldn't be about some pretty much arbitrary process that rejects tens of thousand of perfectly qualified and wonderful people, but what those people eventually did with their lives and if they found a way to get that education, good for them!!!</p>

<p>So you would count on someone else to do your screening for you and do your job? How many wonderful people might be missed because some time several years ago, one day, someone didn't get the luck of the draw, though they were a wonderful person and just as qualified as that person who was admitted, someone who very likely went to a good school, and is now going the extra mile...we all know how many excellent students are rejected....and when one decides that somehow that is extra impressive, they miss out on those that had to or chose to do it a different way</p>

<p>as a business I wouldn't want to count on some other businesses selection process that took place 4-7 years ago to decide who I would be impressed by- I would go a bit deeper than that before I thought, eh, he/she just went to HES, it didn't take much to get in there!!!</p>

<p>wow, just wow</p>

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<p>The point is that the students at HES probably differ very little from the students at any nonselective college that has a majority of nontraditional students. In the real world, graduates of those kind of colleges are not highly sought after. Certainly, because they are older and may have been in the work world, they may have more wisdom and life experience than do most nontraditional graduates. However, that doesn't mean that employers would prefer to hire them over 21-23-year old college grads. Some may, some may not. </p>

<p>When I mentioned the importance of peer interaction in the Harvard College experience, what I was referring to is the knowledge, etc. that one gets by having lots of peers who are not only extremely bright and self motivated, but also may be in some cases at the top of the country in their field or EC of choice. </p>

<p>Also, what Harvard students do in their campus ECs is the equivalent of what some professionals do on their jobs. Take a look, for instance, at the Harvard Crimson, Cambridge's only daily newspaper. The top editors and reporters, all of whom are carrying fulltime courseloads, work (usually without pay) for as many as 30 hours a week there making decisions that include whether to buy the building next door to put a printing press in it. That is an example of the kind of decisions they were making when I last visited it about 10 years ago.</p>

<p>Student reporters go out of town -- often far out of town and on their own dime (I interviewed one time a first gen college student who had hitchhiked to NYC to do a story that got mentioned in Newsweek) -- to report stories, the type of thing that more advanced reporters do on professional papers.</p>

<p>If you look at Phillips Brooks House, Harvard's community service organization at which about 60% of Harvard undergrads volunteer -- by choice, not because classes require them to -- you'll find summer programs and other service programs serving greater Boston that were created and run by students. </p>

<p>Anyway, employers -- particularly at top companies -- take the time and money to recruit at the top universities because they feel that doing that pays off in obtaining a higher quality employee.</p>

<p>I used to recruit for a Fortune 500, and have recruited at Ivies as well as 2nd and even 3rd tier colleges. There was a big difference in the quality of applicant. That's because there's a big difference in the average type of students that goes to schools that are ultra competitive, and schools that are not. For the field that I was recruiting for -- journalism -- one determinant of the quality of the applicants was the quality of their college's student newspapers and broadcast outlets.</p>

<p>The top of the line ones were at places like Ivies and the top journalism programs (including public ones). This was mainly because of the quality of students. In some cases, instruction had nothing to do with it because there were no journalism courses on campus (examples are all undergrad Ivies). For instance at the Harvard Crimson, students have to compete (by writing and editing) to be accepted on staff, and an abundance of students compete even though it is known to be a difficult competition that is run by students. There are no faculty advisors. Students take pride in attempting to beat the Boston Globe on stories, something that occasionally the students accomplish.</p>

<p>At the second tier college where I taught journalism, even the majority of journalism majors had to be forced to work for the student paper, and did the minimum of what their classes required. Pop quizzes in classes had to be used to force journalism students to read the local professional newspaper.</p>