<p>My daughter is about to start her senior year of HS. She wants to study Physics/Math. Here's her profile:
GPA: 4.5 weighted; 3.9 unweighted
ACTs: Composite: 35
SAT Subject Tests: Physics: 800 Math2: 800 Literature: 760
AP Scores: Scored a "5" in each of these exams: Physics B; Chemistry; Calculus BC, subscore for Calculus AB; Language & Composition [She'll take these AP courses senior year: Physics C, Statistics, Comp Sci, Biology and Literature. I think she's crazy!]
Very good extracurricular activities. Lacking in Community Service...does minimum required for Nat'l Honor Society.</p>
<p>So, she's a bright girl and I think she could get into many schools. She thinks schools like MIT would be full of frenzied students doing homework all the time. She likes to work hard, but also likes to relax. She's quiet. She doesn't think she'd be happy at an uber-intense school (like MIT). Also, she's heard places like MIT value grad students more than undergrads. So, maybe she'd look at MIT-like schools for grad school. </p>
<p>Would she be adequately challenged at UROC? Should we be pushing her to aim for schools that are even more selective? Does UROC's program send students to premiere grad schools? </p>
<p>D2 had more math (thru linear analysis) plus all the AP classes your D had, except comp sci. She found UR adequately challenging. (D2 was a double major with one major in applied math.) </p>
<p>UR’s physics dept is highly regarded nationally, particularly in optics. It’s math dept is also very well regarded.</p>
<p>Your D will be able to enroll in grad-level classes her senior year if she has wants more challenging classes. </p>
<p>Additionally, plentiful NSF/NIH funding means there are lots of available research opportunities for undergrads. Professors are quite approachable and welcome undergrads into their labs.</p>
<p>UR’s science programs are very highly regarded and each year UR sends students on to top grad programs.</p>
<p>As to the environment, it’s not MIT. It’s much more “nerd normal” - not my own phrase but one I’ve heard used by UR kids - meaning bright kids who work, who care about learning, but are generally normal. It was a good environment for my kid, who is not heavy science/math but who is relatively quiet and very industrious. The social environment is heavily shaped by interests, meaning clubs and organizations for people who share interests. Clubs cross lines of dorm, where you’re from, major, etc. </p>
<p>I can also speak about a few other kids who I know. One for example was a math major, now working in data analysis. Another was in compsci, now working for a tech company. Also had enjoyable experiences socially that were relatively easy to balance with school, meaning without heavy pressures to party or to work all the time. One of these kids really got involved in the school’s life, the other less. </p>
<p>I think one factor is the school’s size relative to its resources, meaning it is a first tier research university but is small in number of students. It’s large enough that there’s a significant community with a lot of variation but small enough that sheer scale does not intimidate or draw boundaries. </p>
<p>As for grad schools, I have no experience with math/physics grad schools but I know that doing well at UR (or equivalent) and scoring well on the applicable tests is clearly good enough. That’s all you can ever say. As an aside, I’ve had this argument with friends about law school admissions, which is something we know about: is it better to go to Harvard or somewhere else? We agree that if you get into Harvard, that means (in general) you have the test scoring ability to do very well on the LSAT, but there is no other actual advantage beyond admission being a market that you test well. We disagree about whether it’s actually better to go somewhere else, do very well and score just as high, with some favoring yes and some no depending on personal views about the level of competition at various schools. </p>
<p>Also, my kid is an example that real research opportunities are available. WOWM’s kids are more so. I don’t think our families’ experiences are really unusual. </p>
<p>I can talk a bit about grad school admissions in the sciences. (DH was a academic. We have friends/old classmates who are/were faculty at top research universities. Also both my children applied to & were accepted into well-known grad programs, but both decided to attend med school instead. Neither applied in biology, but in other sciences/engineering.)</p>
<p>For grad admissions in sciences (and I would guess mathematics, but I don’t have any expertise re: math grad programs), your D’s research experience will be very important. Her upper level major coursework grades will be very important. Her LORs from her upper level major professors will be very important. </p>
<p>For research, independent projects (like a senior research thesis) are the most valued, but any lab experience where your D has significant responsibilities is good.</p>
<p>Of lesser importance will be her overall GPA and GRE score. (Grad programs do have minimums but generally speaking the cut-offs are set relatively low.)</p>
<p>Of little importance will be the name of the university on her diploma. (You’d be surprised at how many students there are at top programs that come from non-top 100 undergrads.) </p>
<p>My guy is neither Physics nor Math, but I’ll echo that he was high stats and is involved in research he loves (BCS) plus also absolutely loves URoc being very involved on campus. He has felt challenged there academically and has no regrets about his choice of school.</p>
<p>He knew he wanted to go there when he visited and felt he found “his people.” Perhaps a visit would be a good idea? They allow overnight stays as well as sitting in on classes.</p>
<p>I can add that in economics (where my family has been through this), the competition is extremely tight for the limited number of places at the top 14 ranked PhD programs. Because econ directly connects to $$$ - including for academics, which is relatively unusual - and it is largely quantitative these days, the programs attract a high degree of international competition. To get into one, it really helps to have big time work/research experience and you need to do extremely well in both econ and math. </p>
<p>DS is about to start his senior year at Rochester. Physics major/Math minor. His high schools numbers were similar to your D and he is quiet too. </p>
<p>He is challenged at UR and he does work very hard. However, it is not at all a frenzied environment. Students seem to band together to get though the challenges. It’s very collaborative. Most of the profs are student oriented and very helpful.</p>
<p>There are a lot of physics research opportunities for undergrads at UR. He has done REUs at different institutions the last 2 summers. He tells me that UR is highly regarded at other institutions and by other professionals in the field that he has encountered.</p>
<p>He enjoys his relaxation time too. Has a good group of friends with varied interests. He does have fun!</p>
<p>He is starting his grad school quest right now. From what I hear, the 2014 physics grads did well getting grad positions, but I don’t have any details.</p>
<p>IMHO “more selective” does not necessarily mean better or more challenging. DS was accepted at an Ivy but chose to attend UR. He fell in love with the school, the physics dept and the people when he visited in his senior year of high school. He still thinks he made the best choice.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for the perspective. We HAVE visited the school, and we really liked both the University and the city of Rochester. I think it’s our top choice! </p>
<p>Of those of you who’ve visited the school, what describes the average student besides, as you mentioned, “nerd normal”? Friendly? Driven? Conservative? Liberal? </p>
<p>The student body is fairly apolitical and the university administration strives to depolarize/defuse political adversarial conflicts. There are both liberal and conservation organizations active on campus.</p>
<p>High achieving students are by their very nature driven, so that would probably apply to top students at UR. Perhaps strongly goal-oriented would be a better descriptor. I wouldn’t characterize them as cut-throat or hyper-competitive.</p>
<p>Students are more cooperative than competitive. I would also say the students are generally friendly.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like a good fit for University of Rochester. My d was a double humanities major but had many friends in many other departments and many have done well attending top graduate programs in their fields.
I would recommend a campus visit if at all possible or a visit with an admissions person at an off-campus event or if they visit your high school.
Demonstrated interest is important along with really well-written essay. One of my d’s essays was very memorable… so much that when she was performing the National Anthem attended by a University of Rochester representative in spring of her senior year and they were introduced and was told she had committed to attending, the adcom remembered her essay and they had a conversation about it. It is personal in that way. </p>
<p>U Chicago and U Rochester are very different schools.</p>
<p>Chicago has a core curriculum. Rochester has a fairly open curriculum with the clusters.
Chicago physics is mostly theoretical. Rochester physics is both experimental and theoretical.</p>
<p>^^^ I’m not following your reasoning at all. I would think that a basic math placement test weeding out those who didn’t get an adequate math education in high school would be a plus at keeping those in a class who are ready for it.</p>
<p>Yes, those in science/math should pass this test easily. However, some who choose “other” majors might not be so good at remembering math (emphasis on might), esp with the calculator dependency we are breeding in our public schools. They are usually quite good in other disciplines, so belong at the school in their major. They ought to know they need to shore up before trying a math dependent class.</p>
<p>SAT/ACT and similar tests allow calculators. It does not say that this test does (and for many of the questions, it wouldn’t help).</p>
<p>Looking at the test, I’d say it is super fair for the level Physics class it is testing for. There are higher level classes if those would suit your needs better!</p>
<p>But to say that the addition of this test for a basic Physics class means that this school wouldn’t challenge top students? That’s an incredible statement IMO. I’m not seeing any logic leading to that conclusion.</p>
<p>Good point, but in case anyone looking doesn’t realize that and doesn’t take the time to click on the link, nor realize how fair that test is, my post still stands. </p>
<p>The test I looked at had ONE question adding fractions. SAT tests I’ve looked at have had similar questions. The test I looked at asked a fair bit about Trig functions. When have you seen those on the SAT?</p>
<p>I was a Physics major myself. Why are you saying others shouldn’t take basic Physics classes? Of course they should if they want to! They just need to make sure their math capability is up to it first or they could get quite discouraged for the wrong reasons. There are many different levels of Physics. It’s not just reserved for those who want to major in it.</p>
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<p>If this is such a big/insulting issue in your life, I suspect you’ll have a lot of problems ahead as you take laps around the sun.</p>
<p>It is a fair test. It is reasonable to ask of students who wish to take this class. There’s honestly nothing insulting about it.</p>