No one is saying the current system is perfect. The fact is that it is a hard crime to prove or disprove because it happens in private locations most of the time. Getting expelled from school wrongly is a travesty if the person is not guilty. However, I don’t think sending every accused person to jail is a good idea either. It sets a dangerous precedent and is completely against the laws our country was founded on.
Perhaps if you tried to form relationships with women rather than just wanting to pick them up, you might be more likely to get some. If the action is all your after, then perhaps you should save some money and find prostitutes.
There are plenty of places in the world where people can be locked up without the bother of a trial, or constitutional rights, or similar trivia. Perhaps you’d like to try your dating luck in Saudi Arabia.
Please refrain from personal attacks. This thread is not about me. It is about all men. I can get laid. My problem is that even if I don’t sleep with a woman, her word is still enough to have my life completely ruined. How can you say that system is just “not perfect”? Are you saying it is acceptable?
Also, you are victim blaming. … Although, you are not alone. Earlier in this thread people blamed women who have sex with a guy who they just met for her rape. Both blamings are wrong. You are just sweeping the problem under the rug.
Why should I have to go their? I’m arguing against the current college system, which says men on campus can be expelled just on a woman’s word even if he denies having sex with her. She does not have to have his DNA, nor does she have any requirement to come forward promptly.
If a guy is expelled from a school, he has to explain to employers why he left, and why he has W’s or F’s or low grades, depending on when in the semester it happened. Many guys don’t have time to prepare a case and keep up with homework at the same time. The “victim” is allowed extra time to make up classwork and does not have to prepare a case. The guy will be out that tuition for that semester, and it could hurt his financial aid eligibility. He might even have to pay it all back including tuition. At 1/8 of schools, they mark his transcript for misconduct. Often, the guy’s name ends up in newspapers and can be googled by employers for years to come.
How can you say the current system is at all acceptable? All that can happen just on her word, even if she waits months to accuse him.
OP: I’m glad you have the energy to be an activist to change something that clearly means something to you. But arguing patently naïve solutions after people have pointed out fundamental errors is a waste of everyone’s time. Go sit in on planning strategies, read position papers. You’re trying to re-invent the wheel but you don’t know how to draw a circle.
I’m sure there are some legitimate solutions or legal actions being forwarded by other orgs. You said you’re getting involved w/someone else’s lawsuit. Good. I honestly suggest you read through those and continue to lend your hand to them. Others, with a firmer understanding of laws and frankly, how the world operates, are already carrying the banner. It’s good you join them. I’m sure they will appreciate you.
Your tossing out fantastical ideas and then arguing them ad nauseum here just generates clicks and revenue for the site owners. People recognize the current system is flawed – and wish to protect victims and while guarding against false accusations. No one is trying to stuff you. But when you come to the table with outlandish scheme after outlandish scheme, you aren’t advancing your cause and frankly make you sound like a rube
@T26E4 You wrote 3 paragraphs with not a single example of how I’m wrong.
@MGTplus7 No, I was not. I’m passionate because the rules basically say that everyone is a rapist at my campus. Anyone who has kissed their partner without first asking for permission and getting a yes is responsible for sex misconduct and can have their life ruined just on a 3rd party’s word. It has happened at other schools, where the two both fought the 3rd party. How can you be so callous not to care about innocent people who end up in mental hospitals because of the very stigmatizing accusation and ruining of their mental career?
Am I the only person here who cares about the lives of others? You all only care if it happens to you. By then it is too late.
I wasn’t going to recount the instances where others pointed out gaping flaws in your arguments. I offered advice for you to sharpen your thinking before posting outlandish schemes. You reply by arguing with me and then saying none of us care as much as you do. Why don’t you stop arguing and instead do something constructive as I suggested. I won’t reply to any more comments to you nor re-visit this thread.
How is “YOU WANT TO PUT INNOCENT PEOPLE IN JAIL ON A WHIM” caring less than you? It’s not possible to care less than that about someone’s freedom and livelihood. You’re treating lives like toys.
Earlier, you said your financial aid was 2 months late, so took on extra jobs which caused you to fall behind in your classes, and rather than face the possibility of low grades that could ruin your GPA, you withdrew.
But let’s say you did drop out because you were angry over this. You’ve also said you got so angry over this that you cracked a tooth from clenching your jaw. If true, this appears to have gotten to the point where it’s interfering with your life in a fairly substantial way,
I honestly don’t mean this in a condescending or insulting manner, so please don’t take it that way, but have you considered any kind of counseling? Preoccupation with particular thoughts and fears resulting in deterioration of one’s social life, academic or work performance, etc. can be symptoms of something deeper going on. It can’t hurt to just go to a professional to discuss these things and get their opinion, right? If they say it’s fine, you haven’t lost anything other than an hour of your time, but I’d hate to see you give up grad school and completely rule out dating without at least exploring this. Perhaps there’s a way to channel your energies in ways that don’t intrude on your life and goals to quite the degree they appear to be now.
People on here are accepting of a policy that ruins a student’s life, but are against a milder solution: temporary jail that is kept private.
I informed my dean’s office twice about my dislike of their policy. They did not take me seriously. I will write them again about more specific constitutional problems with affirmative consent.
Only a few people in this thread read my OP. The rest just responded to the title, clearly arguing against what they think the post said. No point in debating a bunch of ADHD folk.
Creating a paper trail of accusations could make it much easier to tell who is likely guilty and who is likely not, protecting the innocent. But people here say a database violates people somehow. Instead, they think a student should be expelled on the first accusation, ruining his life on the word of just one person.
Do you not see how you contract yourselves? Whose side are you on?
We read your OP. We object to the idea of locking innocent people in jail. It is impractical and unconstitutional. You don’t want to listen.
Who said that they think students should be expelled from one accusation? You are misinterpreting people lack of support for your idea as support for the current system.
A lot of us wouldn’t consider incarceration without trial to be “a milder solution” (and neither would the Founders). The simple fact which you seem unable to absorb is that, unless you want to get a different Constitution, your idea Cannot. Be. Done. I don’t care how unfair you think universities are, they do not get to override the Constitution.
A few high-profile cases of false accusation are not actual data, and I don’t know how widespread the problem is. But if you want to make this your life’s cause, and you want to be taken seriously, the first thing you need to do is understand the realm of the possible. Your scheme isn’t inside it.
How is going to jail private? You absolutely have to report it on ALL applications, security clearances, federal clearances for the rest of your life. The records are public and the local papers could list all the names weekly if they cared to, and an ‘agreement’ with the college isn’t an agreement with the paper, with the courts that these ‘sentences’ are to be kept secret, or even that the accused is to only be held if he can be on work release, in a nice safe neighborhood jail (and not a big scary city jail).
Have you ever even toured a jail? Even the booking cells and rooms are scary. I used to have to go to the jail attached to the courthouse and I was free to come and go and it was awful! These were the people picked up overnight and not those sentenced. Scary. I refused to go to the city jail where people were held after the first day. Big time scary.
It’s not a ‘policy.’ Colleges are complying with the Title IX requirements of the Dept of Education. Even if the college thought your idea was the best thing they ever heard of, the Dept of Education may not (won’t) think so. The regulations outline what the school has to do, including investigating and dealing with complaints. Say they implemented your plan and a complaint was made, the guy agrees to 10 days in jail, he serves his time and the school takes no further action. That is not in compliance with the Title IX requirements. They’d now be letting an admitted rapist (or assaulter) back on campus, in the dorm (maybe), within the same sphere as the victim.
Honestly, I cannot imagine any man agreeing with this. Essentially you are opening yourself up to XX days in jail just for having sex. No proof needed beyond an accusation. And if you think a college girl is above such a thing as revenge or payback, think again! No one would agree to such a thing!
As a woman, I have 2 sons: no way. This is perhaps a happy medium, but this is too important an issue to allow a happy medium to decide.
What if men could accuse resulting in an automatic jail confinement for the woman?
No. Sorry. Justice is tough, and not always fair. But that does not mean we just chuck it.
So the main arguments against my proposal are that even if many peripheral laws were changed, it would not be possible to keep it private.
BTW, he is not an admitted rapist if he is forced to stay a few nights. It is not a guilty plea. Do you think explaining his expulsion would be any easier?
As for the guy being let back into the dorms, this is the same guy you said was possibly innocent and thus can’t be forced into jail.
Title 9 requires schools to take effective action, such as schedule changes and apartment changes. It does not mandates expulsions or transcript markings. OCR even told schools it is not supposed to be disciplinary, though many schools have activists who are harsh none the less.
As for outside of college, every state lets police hold someone for 48 hours without charging them, if they at least have probable cause. They rarely do hold men on rape charges since they doubt new evidence will surface. Rape is the one crime where you are not likely to be arrested. I guess I’m just not convinced there is no way to mandate it be kept private, if police can’t inform the press and must even lie to them if asked, and if employers may not ask on applications, and if employs are legally allowed to lie, and if it did not show up on his record. It would not be just for an accusation, but for a believable sounding one, short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.