<p>tia3 - that is exactly how my son felt and so many other students felt as they waited for Tulane to re-open. Maybe it is not for everyone - for those who want things to be just as they always imagined with no complications. Those will not go to VaTech, as they did not return to Tulane. But the ones who returned, the ones who go - they will have opportunities for growth that you cannot necessarily imagine in advance. Good luck to your D.</p>
<p>"I don't know. I sent my child off to New Orleans specifically for the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be part of the rebuilidng of a community. I realize that the situations are not entirely parallel. But there was much much grieving in New Orleans, many people struggling to cope."</p>
<p>I think that there are a lot of similarities between the situation in New Orleans after Katrina and the one at VT now. I wouldn't have sent my kids off to go to become college freshmen in the class that entered after the hurricane/shooting at either place.</p>
<p>I remember that I had a hard time adjusting to college myself. Now that I think about it, I entered college the fall after there had been a huge antiwar student uprising that was broken up by the police, resulting in 200 arrests and 37 injuries. From my adult perspective honed by having been a university faculty member, I would bet money that lat least some of my adjustment freshman year was due to the aftermath of the bust. </p>
<p>Anyway, I think that adjusting to college is a major step for everyone, and most students don't need the additional challenge of having to adjust in an environment that recently suffered a major trauma that faculty, students, administrators and other staff are still recovering from. </p>
<p>It is good, however, that some students are able to rise to and grow from that kind of challenge. It's just not anything I would have felt comfortable expecting my kids' to face.</p>
<p>I admire jmmom's fortitude, but I'm afraid I agree with Northstarmom.</p>
<p>Thank you, sjmom. Maybe there was fortitude involved. I think it is more that we viewed the experience as one where he had something to gain, not where he has something to lose. It turned out that he experienced it that way. </p>
<p>And it may be that the attitude is everything. If you (and your family, maybe) see it as an opportunity, probably increases the likelihood that you will live it that way. If you fear that you will miss out, or have a difficult experience, probably increases the chances that you will experience it that way.</p>
<p>I do agree that attitude means a lot. Some kids would thrive on such a challenge, and others would find it too emotionally draining. I'm so glad that there were kids like your son who did support New Orleans and Tulane. If his major had not been eliminated, I'm sure he would have had a wonderful four years, with many unique stories to share.</p>
<p>Thank you all for these thoughts. Jmmom, I wish I could be as succinct as you. Thank you for sharing that wisdom. While I agree with many concerns that are reflected here and from those I speak to offline I hear just as many peope who don't dismiss those concerns but who choose to think positively . Part of my growth as a parent and simply as an adult has been to discover that the we cannot control all that comes into our path. We walk a fine line when we guide our children. They take their own steps, though. Most importantly, I have found, as I am sure any mother has, that the best discoveries about my children come from intuitive knowledge that is confirmed by great surprises. Most of the time, these revelations are not expected and don't evolve from any thought I put in my child's head or place I put her. Because of this, I have come to believe that I have to walk a line of guidance and faith. It's the only way I can let her be independent. I trust her judgement about herself and her choices. I also believe there is a reason that she wants to go there so much and that it is probably meant to be, beyond what I might understand right now. This is her soul choosing this place. She may need to be there for a purpose I don't exactly know. I am the one who feels a little sad that this is her freshman year and I will feel this month's memories as we walk on the campus at orientation. I have even thought about how I may feel too sad to stay at the inn there, because I am a mother and many mourning mothers were there. I worry some that there are kids who might drown their sorrows in drink. I have thought of all kinds of possibilities that could be detrimental to her somehow - but also of many that could be wonderful for her. But these are my worries, not hers. I don't even like flying and avoid it when I can. But I would not refuse to let her get on a plane. Today, my husband and I laughed and shook our heads - of all the schools, did this have to be the one she really loves? Having been to the school and having heard and seen evidence of the grace and caring that the administration, faculty and students are exhibiting in the face of this crisis, I just have a good feeling that everything will be okay for these freshmen. And wherever she would go, I have to rely on that.</p>
<p>No one doubts that it's unlikely that tragedy will strike again and that it's safe. I'm just afraid that there may be a "downer" mentality for a while.</p>
<p>Personally, I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Of course there will be people still healing enough to affect their mentality but at the same time keep in mind this is a huge school. Of course everyone is upset about what happened to their community just generally, most of Va is. But I do see person after person who really didn't didn't know any of the victims. I am not saying it isn't a sobering reality, but by that line of thought, any college next year, particularly in Va, will have a "downer" mentality. I've already seen initial reports describing kids on the Tech campus who were affected more generally, and while they are still of course respectful and very sorry and shocked, they seemed to be somewhat going on with normal activity. I am trying not to downplay the effect of such a terrible event on people who didn't personally know a victim but I also think people should keep in mind the difference in grieving the loss of a presence in your life and grieving for your community in a general sense. All of these high schools that lost kids, all of these other colleges in Va where nearly everyone knew kids at Tech, they are grieving in a general sense too. I feel that in several months, Tech will generally be the same place everybody fell in love with. They will never forget but I think they will move forward. </p>
<p>Tech is a very, very spirited school and the victims shared that spirit. This has been a big factor in how the campus has handled the loss so far (choosing to wear school colors instead of black) because there is a sense that this is what the victims would have wanted. I feel there are a lot of schools, due to size perhaps and culture, that would not rebound as well Tech has and will. The Hokies are almost like a cult ;) They love being Hokies and they have a great sense of pride in their school. I realize that it is due to unfortunate recent events that most of the nation has been exposed to the Hokie spirit, but it has always been such a presence. This hasn't changed, and I don't foresee it changing. The support has meant more to those directly affected than anyone could ever know, it has really been a shining beacon of hope in such a tragedy. In a way I almost feel that Tech will be more spirited than ever in the future. A bond that was already strong has been strengthened further. The incoming classes are fairly large, there will be many "new" people. To answer the question again, yes, if I had decided on Tech I would still go.</p>
<p>At first, I thought I wouldn't want my child in Blacksburg. Too isolated. But after seeing those kids on TV and how well they handled themselves in front of the media, I have a tremendous respect for that school. They're bright, terrific students who came together in a time of unspeakable tragedy. They're a credit to VT. Now, I'd be proud if I had a child going there. Hokie pride is contagious. I think Princedog's last paragraph above sums it all up.</p>
<p>I also think Princedog says it all. And the more I read this thread, and compare it with my son's (and our family's) experience with Katrina and Tulane, the more I think that the experience is in the eye of the beholder. </p>
<p>Those who think it would be too much of a downer, who feel that the experience there will be diminished by the recovery process -- they shouldn't be there. That is what they will find there.</p>
<p>Those who already see the spirit, the determination and will to move forward, to honor their fallen classmates -- they (and I believe most of the University will be of this spirit) will thrive at VT... starting this week.</p>
<p>Princedog, I pray that you're right and that the VT student body will rise to the challenge. I'll amend my comment to say that the <em>perception</em> of many is that there will be a downer mentality.</p>
<p>I completely concur with those who say that attending an institution after a tragedy and the ability to embrace the experience is "in the eye of the beholder". I also learned that although our son was enthused to go back and be part of the recovery at Tulane (as were we), I don't think he was necessarily properly equipped to deal with all the challenges.</p>
<p>Ye,s he matured. Yes, he did find new meaning (his words) in "returning to a place of consequence" where he could make a difference. However, our son, even with all the best of intentions, struggled a fair amount emotionally.
Much more than he would have expected. Much more than we would have thought. </p>
<p>I had a conversation with a Tulane administrator on campus recently who shared with me that the kids that were having the most trouble emotionally in the aftermath of Katrina were not the students who already had been there (ie sophomores and up), but rather the newest FRESHMAN class. The incidence of depression, for example, was up sharply in this group. This was a very surprising revelation to me.</p>
<p>So, all I'm saying is that good intentions and resolve aside, it's really important to have these discussions upfront with your student. We didn't really address it because we didn't think it would be an issue for ours.</p>
<p>
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Princedog, I pray that you're right and that the VT student body will rise to the challenge. I'll amend my comment to say that the <em>perception</em> of many is that there will be a downer mentality.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I realize this. And it will not be for everyone still, I don't think. There are some extremely sensitive people who are affected much more seriously than most by such events, no matter how close or far they are from them. However, I would say these people need to exercise caution no matter what as that does imply they could be greatly affected by this no matter what they do in the next few months. Also for people more directly affected, the memories at Tech of a lost presence could be too much. However I have heard many close to victims say they will return (there was a nice profile of Michael Pohle's fiancee, though she will not finish out the remainder of the year she said she would return because he loved Tech so much and wouldn't have wanted it any other way). </p>
<p>While I don't want to make it sound like the majority of the students will forget and move on, (they will never forget), because I hesitate to paint them as callous or something, that is not my intention, remember these are also young people. I really suspect they can move on. I know that you could say some situations of tragedies like 9/11 are comparable and there were people greatly affected afterwards by things like PTSD, but while I am not scientifically sure of this or anything, it does seem like young people have more a potential to rebound faster for many reasons. Because they have to, because they need to, because it's expected they will...I am not saying this will be true for every individual so of course there has to be individual consideration here, but as a community, there may be some truth in this I think. That isn't even accounting for the culture at Tech which is almost bizarre, there is really nothing quite like it in Va and a lot of future Hokies are attracted to that. There is almost the sense that they are remembering all the good times for the victims, instead of focusing on the one bad time, more so than I have seen before in such tragedies. What is going at Tech, from my sources, is really somewhat different than the window to world, so to speak. Things are really playing out differently for us than for them. </p>
<p>All I can really tell you is everyone I've talked to so far that was already about to send the Tech deposit has either sent it (yes, even since Monday) or is still going to send it.</p>
<p>Hi Princedog. In reference to curiouser's post, could you comment on the fact that at Tulane many freshmen were said to have had a more difficult time than the ones who went through the ordeal? We are hoping that most of the VT students that we are aware of will not be excluding them somehow or quietly leaving them out of the community since they didn't share this. I don't think they seem like they would, but it may be natural for them to. I think kids going there are smart enough to see that coming, some. This may have happened at Tulane to some degree. That possibility will be something to talk to our daughter about.</p>
<p>A friend at my church whose D is a h.s sr. planning to go to Tech next year told me that her daughter's first words after hearing of the shootings was "Mom, can I still go next year?" They had just been for a campus visit last weekend. Her Mom said "yes".</p>
<p>At Tulane, the groups don't quite divide into "those who went through the experience" and those who didn't, because Katrina happened immediately before the opening of the school year (August 2005) on the first day of Freshman Orientation. So all Freshmen were there (with families, usually) and some upperclassmen. I'd say there were three groups in relation to "the experience":
1) the incoming freshmen and some upperclassmen, who were evacuated two days prior to the hurricane's strike (my S and I believe curiouser's S were in this group). The freshmen "returned" to Tulane in the spring, but it was really their first time there.
2) the sophs, jrs and srs, who were already "Tulanians" - albeit not on campus at the time - who when campus reopened were <em>returning</em> to Tulane to complete their years there.
3) this year's freshmen, who chose Tulane after the hurricane, after the shut-down, reopening and slight downsizing of the University. These would be the one who might be "left out" of the sense of having experienced it. I have no knowledge of how it was for them.</p>
<p>So that is one sense where the two situations are a little less comparable, I'm guessing. Curiouser's S and mine (if I'm correct) were in the same class - freshmen who "experienced" it, but were new to Tulane and chose to return but had never really been there before, if you get what I mean. It looks to me like her S and mine had different experiences in terms of coping. It was harder on hers than on mine. For some reason, my S did not suffer emotionally and I actually have no idea why. He had bonded closely with an upperclassman who had hosted him for two nights prior to his choosing Tulane; perhaps that had something to do with it, I don't know.</p>
<p>Interestingly, my S has suffered much more in the adjustment to his new school. I'm sure part of that is the challenges in transferring, especially as it was a "forced" transfer; part perhaps the culture of the new school; part how much he truly loved Tulane and New Orleans.</p>
<p>So, I certainly agree with curiouser that it is wise to talk about what your student might experience heading off to a school in the aftermath of a tragedy. But I guess the interesting observation here is that, while neither she nor her S could have anticipated the issues he might struggle with while at Tulane, our family did not anticipate the degree to which my S would struggle upon <em>leaving</em> Tulane. Well, we did... but it has actually been harder than we anticipated.</p>
<p>If there is any "take home" message from our two experiences, it is that it can be somewhat of a folly to think we know who will have what struggle. </p>
<p>FWIW (probably not much ;) ), I wouldn't worry too much about the Freshmen feeling "left out" because they didn't experience the tragedy. They will be their own class, bonding in terms of their own relationship to the tragedy - that they felt, both prior to it and after it, a pull to VT and a belief that it was the fit for them, that they are part of ensuring that it remains the vital spirited University that it has come to be.</p>
<p>
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Hi Princedog. In reference to curiouser's post, could you comment on the fact that at Tulane many freshmen were said to have had a more difficult time than the ones who went through the ordeal? We are hoping that most of the VT students that we are aware of will not be excluding them somehow or quietly leaving them out of the community since they didn't share this. I don't think they seem like they would, but it may be natural for them to. I think kids going there are smart enough to see that coming, some. This may have happened at Tulane to some degree. That possibility will be something to talk to our daughter about.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I am not sure the extent to which the incoming freshmen were already affected by Katrina. For example, I was not really affected by it - thought it was terrible, but was too geographically detached from the situation. Most of the incoming freshmen at Tech are from Va. Being a state school where so many go, these kids have ties to kids who are not freshmen. I know a lot of kids at Tech who will be second years. Many have siblings or the siblings of friends. At least 25 kids go to Tech from my school every year. And that is just one of 25 schools in the county. So I have a feeling it will be a very different situation than would be present at a school with a more geographically diverse incoming class. This is kind of something all the older high schoolers in Va lived as they scrambled to find out if all their friends were okay - like I said, almost the extent of the kids already at Tech, although of course it is not the same, and not as bad, but really I think you'd have to understand what those few hours afterwards were like even four hours away as we scrambled to reach the hundreds of kids we knew at Tech. </p>
<p>I also think you have to look at the events. Both Katrina and what happened at Tech are tragedies that left great senses of loss in their wake. However they are different. Considering Katrina, there was a great deal of physical rebuilding of NO to be done - this obviously is not the case at Tech. I suspect that some of what Curiouser suggests could be attributed to freshmen feeling overwhelmed about the rebuilding and not having a place to jump in, while those who had been there before probably were naturally gravitating towards helping people and places they'd already formed an alliance with. I can see how that would make someone feel helpless and the surroundings would be depressing. But like I said at Tech, the majority of the incoming freshmen already have what could be considered significant ties to the community (relative to what they could have at other schools). Those who don't will probably be absorbed into the ties that the new friends they make have. I think that incoming freshmen will likely rally around the kids they already know (seniors up here are already making plans to do that in various ways over the coming months), and they will find their place that way. Basically just the communication going on right now between current seniors and current Hokies leads me to believe that there will probably not be a sense of exclusion. If your daughter is worried she might find it helpful to establish contact with an alumni group or group of current students from your area, who have likely already planned some memorial activities that your daughter could participate in. They already see the incoming freshmen as Hokies.</p>
<p>That's a very good thought, to connect with some other incoming freshman from our area for this. We're from Pennsylvania and I know there are always a good number from this area.</p>
<p>Apologies to all---
I now realize that my post was unclear. When I said that the "current" Tulane Freshmen seemed to have had the most challenges after Katrina, what I meant was those who were Freshmen at the time it happened...who had just arrived on campus and didn't have the opportunity to really experience Tulane in a pre-Katrina world. These kids all had to go somewhere else for the fall term, as you know.</p>
<p>Anyway, those students are now sophomores..and jmmom and I both had sons there at the same time. Jmmom, I think it's a very true statement that it's very hard to predict who will struggle and who will not.</p>
<p>Admission has been offered to 12,848 new students. As of Monday, only five had declined to enroll because of the shootings, according to VA Tech spokesman, Larry Hinker.</p>