And no, we had the choice and went the residential college route.
Ok, @ucbalumnus, I’ll bite.
My DS chose SJSU ($25k/yr) over colleges such as LMU ($55k/yr) and chapman ($40k/yr) (after merit awards) and UCSD and Syracuse.
We are full pay and would be happy to have paid for private college. Also DS has attended elite private k-12 ed to the tune of $35k/yr. He is going no frills because of the strength of SJSU in his major, animation. He definitely feels more “familiar” with the type of student body at chapman. He is an easygoing an flexible guy tho and can do fine in any environment. Had he gotten accepted into USC, then he would have chosen usc over SJSU, so there is some prestige/no frills line drawn somewhere. And yes, my DS applied to both upenn and CSULA.
CCs do not have the academic quality (faculty or students) of serious universities in Germany or the US.
@sorghum, arguably yes, but serious research universities that are in large part commuter schools like UIC, UAB, GMU, UCincy, Houston, UMBC, USF, and even ASU and UNM arguably have quality faculty (and in terms of student quality, they can’t be too different from almost all universities in France, which are required to take in anyone with a Bac, or many universities in German).
You’re describing most good European universities in that “no frill” description. I’m fine with that, really. The quality is good academically and the price is even better.
No. I like the Anglo-American campus-as-community “academical village” model. It’s appealing and has a mythology that actually attracts international students who won’t find it in their home countries. I also value the liberal arts college concept, which is not possible in the no-frills mode.
Oxford and Cambridge, with their tutorials, residential colleges and JCRs (even if many students aren’t actually living in college), are pretty different in feel from the standard European urban commuter university.
For the right student, and going in fully aware of all the realities, absolutely, if the desire is there and especially if the alternative involves debt.
It would come down to weighing all the pros and cons of both options, what you give up and what you gain with each, and which way the balance ended up. I did, by the way, gain my B.A. from an European university like that. I am happy that my older daughter is attending a residential four year college and very much enjoying her experience. I hope my younger daughter will also have the same choice.
I do not understand the definition of “no frills”. Somebody above suggested that Comm. Col’s are "“no frills”. But, I though that the original topic of discussion is about 4 year degrees that CC’s clearly do not provide. So, what is “no frills”? Are they 4 years in-state publics?
Maybe we can provide the definition of “frills” before we can discuss “NO frills”? OK, what are “frills”?
@DrGoogle I am sure your kid at a UC has an advisor. My freshman daughter at UCR has met with her academic advisor in person at least three times this year, she may have communicated more via email. I thought it might be because my daughter has an academic scholarship but according to her, everybody is assigned one by major and last name.
At my European university there truly were no advisors. If you had any problems, you either spoke directly with your professor or you went down to the administrative offices and navigated the massive red tape all by yourself.
US State universities are not “no frills”. Even typical universities have many things which people consider necessities, such as a career center, safe science labs, a gym, a quad…
Many European universities are free or near-free, but it means you get what you pay for. If something breaks, too bad - it’ll get fixed when the budget’s in. There may not be much or any heat in winter. (1 week with a broken window and no heat makes you reconsider the concept of paying tuition.) One university I know had to start quick renovations because parts of the ceiling fell off and the rest seemed ready to follow. Some universities have electrical wires dangling from the ceilings. In some classes, students sit on the floor, or on the lecture hall’s steps. (This is justified by the fact about a third will drop out anyway so there’ll be space by January). There’s no grade repair, no tutoring, and 50% are expected to fail. Students go to class, copy -verbatim- what the lecturer says, and memorize it. Then they go home to their apartments/flats/bedsits. They may not make many new friends because most students at the university come from the public prep schools nearby.
You don’t have an adviser because typically you don’t have any choices - all your classes are prescribed and all are in your major. If you want to talk to your professor, you may or may not meet him/her. Office hours may or may not be held (even if announced). You are not really the professor’s priority. Organization may be chaotic because the support staff’s not there and the professors may not be well organized. Some students had problems with finals announced two days before the date they were supposed to be taken, or finals scheduled at the same time with no make up exam period scheduled.
You may have to wait for 1 hour in a line before you can enter the cafeteria and eat lunch. The library may close at 8pm, or 7pm, or even 6pm, and may not be open on weekends. There’s no career center and businesses don’t come to campus to recruit. There’s no tutoring center either. You may have to wait a month before you get a syllabus (or may never get one, depending on whether the country requires one or not, and how quickly). How you’re graded may be whimsical or may change during the semester because some facilities the professors expected aren’t free, or because something went wrong somewhere. The quality of the lecturers is great, their lectures are high-level material and the pace is fast. However, whether that’s delivered in a coherent manner or makes sense to the students is of no concern to them. Literally - it doesn’t enter the equation nor is it expected to, even though of course you may luck out (I remember one European professor expressing amazement that he was supposed to take into account his undergraduate students when lecturing, as in, what they’d understand, whether his delivery was optimal or even acceptable, etc.) They also wouldn’t give you an email address and certainly wouldn’t expect to be contacted by email.
Since failure is expected, no one is surprised if you’re among those who failed a couple classes, and so you repeat many credits - which you can do in “summer school”, in June, or by dragging the credits along and repeating them. Since you’re not paying, you don’t grumble and just promise you’ll do better, and, sometimes, you do. If not, you may progress to the next level still carrying that one unit you need to “take again”. For entertainment, clubs, sports, etc., you go into town (where you tend to have amazing discounts on everything, including transportation to the mountains, to the beach, to historical attractions…)There may be college sports but they’re less competitive than middle school sports, since most students are involved with the city. Students in fact may identify with their city but not with their university. All the socialization and entertainment parts are delegated to the city where the university’s located.
This does not apply if you happen to attend a handful of elite universities, like the Grandes Ecoles, Bocconi, etc.